JFK Pontiac ambulance up for auction

It's over???

Personally, I don't think it's over. In my opinion, the investigation will continue until someone proves the ambulance to be fake..or possibly otherwise....Alex
 
Paul Steinberg said:
Right before the auction started, the television announcer said that it was in poor shape when the Dr. got it out of a Kansas junk yard. In the taped interview, the Dr. said that he purchased it from a California car collector. Seems that the story keeps changing right up to the auction. I also noticed that the spotlight had a California steady red, and also had a knob on the back side of it. I have never seen a remote control spotlight with a knob on the rear. The only spotlights that I know of that have a knob on the rear is the Unity deck lights.
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Paul: I noticed the same things.... I am now 100% certain that the one auctioned off last night WAS the Bobb Kosoff (CA) Car! MM
 
Kevin M. Parkinson said:
Who else heard the announcer say, in response to the email question about the side curtains, that if he would have seen what the car looked like when Dr. Jensen found it in a junk yard in Kansas he'd understand why the curtains were not there?

What happened to original unrestored?

Who bought it?
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Im glad Im not the only one that caught that!! They pretty much contridicted themselves when one minut they were saying how it was untouched original and later said it was pretty rough when the seller found it in a Kansas junkyard. If they cant keep their story straight on that, how can they prove anything else?
 
Gregg D. Merksamer said:
The 14 minutes - 8:18 to 8:32 PM by my bedroom clock - this rig spent on Barrett-Jackson's block are the most remarkable I've ever observed at ANY auction after 15 years covering them professionally. The pre-sale trotting out of all those evidence boards - containing everything from the paperwork supporting B-J's case to the refuting scrappage photos from the Kennedy Library - was absolutely unprecedented, emphasizing in no uncertain terms "you're buying the mystery," as Company President Steve Davis told the crowd and the world watching at home. I thought it no less intriguing that B-J CEO Craig Jackson demonstated confidence in the lot by pointing out how the purported Buddy Holly car was pulled from this last year's sale, but not this ambulance. The $120,000 sum paid sans buyer's premium and tax suggests the purchaser could be someone who runs a car museum, casino or tourist attraction where he or she has a good shot at recouping the 400%-or-so premium paid over a 1963 Superior Pontiac ambulance WITHOUT any history potentially attached to it; a wise buy, arguably, if ironclad documentary evidence had allowed a 4,000 or 5,000 % premium. As for B-J, this was the probably the hardest 12 grand they've ever earned in their entire 40-year history.
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When they said you are buying the mystery, I figured they would turn the controversy around in their favor.
By the way, you said the time by your bedroom clock. We are supposed to be basment bloggers so your bedroom better be in your basement!
 
Richard Vyse said:
I feel slighted that Steve said there are clubs out there who are into these types of vehicles closing with, "If you like that sort of thing". Screw him. The world does not revolve around hot rods and Mustangs.
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Good point. I would take a rusty beat up old pro car anyday over a nice Mustang or Camaro, and I have. I traded a nice 88 Camaro for rusty 81 S&S Victoria and never regreted the decision.
 
Paul Hoch said:
From http://automotive.speedtv.com/article/autos-kennedy-ambulance-bid-to-120k/:
[QUOTE ON:]
Kennedy Ambulance Bid To $120K
Paradise Valley, Az., collector at Barrett-Jackson steps up because she's "an all-American girl" and the price was so low.
...
The gray Navy ambulance, surrounded by controversy regarding its authenticity, was bought by Addison Brown of Paradise Valley, Az., who wasn’t yet born when the assassination occurred.
“I’m an all-American girl,” Brown said after the sale. “I know that this car represents a huge day in U.S. history.”
She said that initially, she will house the car in her private automobile museum, then possibly find a dignified place for it to be kept.
“I’d like to see it in the Smithsonian or something like that,” Brown said. “I promise everyone, the American people, that it will have a great home.”
Brown believes in the authenticity of the car because of all the confirming research performed by the seller and auction officials.
She hadn’t planned to buy the car, Brown added, but was surprised that the bidding was so low. She and a group of friends had been estimating beforehand what the price would be.
“I said, if it sells for $125,000, it’s going home with me,” she said.
The final result, including the 10 percent bidder fee, was $137,500 for the ambulance.
[QUOTE OFF]

There is an undated photo of Brown and her husband at one of Craig Jackson’s “private bashes at his multi-million dollar, 20,000 sq. ft. plus home,” also in Paradise Valley, at http://arizonafoothillsmagazine.com/the-az-insider/1584.html.


Brown and Jensen have been interviewed by Fox:
http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/entertainment/controversial-jfk-ambulance-sold-for-120k-01222011 “[T]he woman who bought it said the controversy did not bother her. She said she trusted the research done by Barrett Jackson.”
“The Paradise Valley woman, who is a car collector, was not sure what she would do with the vehicle, but she may ask the Smithsonian if it is interested in displaying it.”

Jensen said “I didn’t expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition.”
Well, not exactly; that’s the Monty Python version.
He said “The scrutiny was more than I bargained for.”
(That is about halfway through the 2:26 video.)
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Thanks for this post. Now that we have a buyers name we can continue to keep tabs on this car, and learn more from it, and maybe even get her as a new PCS member.
 
I didn't post on this right after the auction. We were at our son's house and didn't want to use his computer and I wanted to "ponder" on it a bit.

After said "ponderment" (and with the new information provided) here is my take on it. There were losers and winners. By far the biggest loser was the credibility of B-J auctions. They chose profit over truth, understandable in today's society. The next biggest loser was "truth" itself. Like a famous person once said "......there are 3 sides to every story, yours, mine, and the truth which usually lies somewhere in the middle...". Truer words were never spoken! Another possible loser would be the buyer, consensus is they purchased a very nice "clone" for about 5 times what it should have gotten. Dr. Jensen's credibility took a small hit also.

Now for the winners. By far the biggest winners are those who spent much time and effort trying to find the "truth". Most of them are on these forums. My hat is off to you folks....FINE WORK!!!! The next biggest winner COULD be the buyer, Addison Brown. If she follows up on the fine work already started and does indeed get to the bottom of this, she COULD have grounds for legal action, and recover her purchase price plus. If, in fact, she does own the "real deal" she is a bigger winner. Another winner was the "market". The folks interested in this car listened to, and read all sides of the story and responded by not letting this auction get way out of hand. In spite of all the last minute hype and hyperbole (bluff, bluster, and bullshit for those in Rio Linda) by those involved it would seem that "reason" won out. Another huge winner in this is the membership of this community, we've shown that we can stick together and be a potent force to be reckoned with.

I am very proud to be a member here, I've learned a lot about the cars we all love, and truly enjoy every minute of the time spent here. Thanks to all of you for the way you have made and continue to make "new" members feel welcome.

To those of you new members in the past few days......WELCOME ABOARD!!!!!
 
PHS information

A piece of documentation quoted by BJ was the information provided by the Pontiac Historical Society. I spoke directly with the head of the Society about my 65. He told me they could offer very little information. They would have the record of a chassis being transfered to Superior, but that it would be all. All other particulars of the actual car were Superior data and no longer a Pontiac issue. Has anyone obtained more detailed information from them?
 
Was previous owner Jon Jensen #13302 1964 Pontiac Superior Ambulance

Staff Car/Car Based Series In Barrett Jackson Reference "JFK" won an award at 2010 Military Vehicle Preservation Convention

Award on that site went to a Jon Jensen #13302 1964 Pontiac Superior Ambulance
 
my thoughts who better to buy then a family friend!! they did better then a phone bidder and shipping over seas. I will give them credit for that.

the fact that the FBI stopped in and had a discussion over the car with the Dr. may account for some of this. his statement on the last set of interviews not mine. but I would ask him to speak at the next convention on finding and selling Hx ambulances. I'll bet it would be a vary enlightening talk.

I had thought BJ removing Hx pieces of the car was strange. no matter how easel it was to do so. you just don't do that and keep Hx of the piece free from controversy. which data plate is now on the car? in spite of the low resolution pictures a 0 and a 6 stamped are different.

were they did show the pictures and witnessed statement they did not give them the weight that they should have coming from the Kennedy library. the letter and witnesses glossed over quickly and the photos from off a web site. you can come up and look them over if you like. Did the library contact BJ on this one? by saturday they knew with over 50% certainly that it was not the car claimed to be. owner driving it around as his daily driver in calf, acquired with a parts car, found in junk yard in kansas in rough shape. no name of the man he bought it from no idea were the letters proving documentation came from. all statements made by the Dr in interviews linked here. no wounder he did not want to appear on TV. I'll believe he got the car thinking it was the car and set out to try and prove it. got to were he could not find any information on the car and hired someone to dig for him. they provided what BJ stated they needed and there statement over and over again at there news briefing the none of the documents existed till this year is a correct one.

one call to the Kennedy Library is all it took to prove the fate of the real car. Dans inquiry about it is what pointed the way for us. but anyone else doing serious checking with the places and the resources BJ stated they used should have picked up on it to.

thanks for the kind words on us being civil here. we strive to do so. the one thing we all enjoy is popping each other's bubbles. if we can out scoop each other in a positive friendly manner we will. it's a give a take kind of thing I'm still on the bottom of. but just like flash cards, you really get to learn a lot. if you mind is not closed and your fingers typing.
 
For what it's worth, I can't find a single difference (besides the siren) between the BJ car and the CVC car, right down to the little round sheetmetal plug mounted on the drivers side rear "window":

bjcvc.jpg



and Ed, the brass tag you pictured CLEARLY states that the vehicle was manufactured in "1883", so Superior must have been way ahead of their time...:rofl:
 
Steve Apgar said:
Staff Car/Car Based Series In Barrett Jackson Reference "JFK" won an award at 2010 Military Vehicle Preservation Convention

Award on that site went to a Jon Jensen #13302 1964 Pontiac Superior Ambulance
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the Dr owned that car in this condition at that time. according to the Pon web site. the information for the much talked about Pont Hx peopel listed the bar bones of when built and how and were it went to ending with superior. no more then that. it's up in the BJ first set of releases.
 
Todd Merrifield said:
For what it's worth, I can't find a single difference (besides the siren) between the BJ car and the CVC car, right down to the little round sheetmetal plug mounted on the drivers side rear "window": and Ed, the brass tag you pictured CLEARLY states that the vehicle was manufactured in "1883", so Superior must have been way ahead of their time...:rofl:
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No outside rear view mirror on the B-J car ...
 
Todd Merrifield said:
For what it's worth, I can't find a single difference (besides the siren) between the BJ car and the CVC car, right down to the little round sheetmetal plug mounted on the drivers side rear "window":

bjcvc.jpg



and Ed, the brass tag you pictured CLEARLY states that the vehicle was manufactured in "1883", so Superior must have been way ahead of their time...:rofl:
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a 6 and a 8 are really close in a hand stamp. a 0 and a 6 are not but it does bring up the point why did then not present a clear picture of the tag?? wave it around let everyone there play with it but not post one clear pictures of there key piece of evidence.

I was going to let someone else bring up the old antenna patch. glad you did Just like Bob's. we won't go into how dumb a location that was either to put the whip. one more thing you don't find on the car in 63 or the crusher.
 
Has anybody asked Bob Kosoff

I have Bob Kosoffs e-mail since he always listed that 1963 Navy on my website..It was on for over a year. Has anybody called him and asked him or have you guys already found out he sold it to the Dr. Bob has not been showing the car for sale for a long time now ?
 
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