JFK Pontiac ambulance up for auction

John ED Renstrom said:
I still can't help but wounder why every article keeps saying that the lettering on the back door of the crushed car matches the film footage of the car used. they don't . nor do either match the letter of the car being sold as it. the numbers are all the same. but the crushed car shows the changes that the navy made over time. lettering added and the crosses added.
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The line "US Navy 94-49196" is virtually in the exact same location on the back door of both the "casket" car and the "crushed" car. The government added the words "Medical Department" sometime after November 22, 1963. The location of the lettering on the "B-J" car is nowhere near the original car.
 
Been looking for something on the B-J press conference and haven't been able to come up with anything. If someones hear's or finds something out please let us know!
 
Just posted on Barrett-Jackson's Facebook page,

"We are not pulling this car." - Craig Jackson said in reference to the JFK Ambulance to be sold Saturday after a 30-minute press conference detailing the consignor's documentation.
 
"Barrett-Jackson attorney Virginia Llewyllen now tells The Associated Press that the auction company can’t say for sure if the ambulance actually carried Kennedy’s coffin."
 
This was something I had not seen mentioned as I read the thread you guys have here, what if this may have been the decoy car? While it still may not have held JFK would that maybe be plausible?

I have always like the old ambulances, I never knew there was a forum for them until I read about you guys tracking a lot of this information down. I personally had never seen the Poncho version until this car went up for auction. I really like the looks of it.
 
Here is an email that I shared with another group of us about this ambulance from a few weeks ago. This was sent out BEFORE we had the photographic proof the car had been destroyed.

Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 1:07 PM
Subject: Re:Ambulance that carried JFK up for auction

I'm still a just little doubtful if this is the very ambulance that we have seen in the historic news footage from those fateful days in November 1963. Could it have actually been in service at Bethesda at that time? Sure! I can't imagine a naval hospital of that caliber and notoriety only having one ambulance in their motor pool. I'd say that had at least a couple if not three or four in the fleet at that time. Could one of those other ambulances have transported the slain President? Sure! Could they have setup a "decoy" for the media on on lookers to follow at some point? Possible! Could the numbers on the exterior have been changed and could the car been re-assigned a new ID number and shipped to a base out west or even over seas some where? Quite possible as well! Could have the numbers, ID plates have been swapped between two ambulances? Maybe! The entire assassination, funeral services proceedings, Oswald, the investigations, reports and even this ambulance have all been veiled in so much allegory and speculation that I'm sure we'll never truly for sure know the truth about this car. Granted it is a pretty neat and complete example of what the military had in use at that time! I think now the current owner doesn't give a damn about the car it's self now that Barrett-Jackson now has physical possession of the car and now they are just seeing a bunch of $$$$$$$$$$$$$ signs now that it looks like it will be hitting the auction block soon. With all the discussion that has been brought up this past week and with what some of our historians and professional car experts have submitted to B-J all I think they will do is just turn a deaf ear to us. (But they have actually listed to us about this subject!)


Jeremy D. Ledford.


Reminds me of what someone said on another blog about the 64 M-M Duplex also up for sale, Someone has confused historical significance with greediness!
 
I cant beleave there still going to run it through the auction, I would say its chances of bringing good money have dropped concideribly. In my mind, and many of other peoples, this car is not the real deal, and is worth no more than any other ordinary ambulance.

Josh
 
we are driving up the dollar amount for the car. so of course they are going to sell it and let the buyer bewair. one little blerp that it might not be in a thousand mention that is, is is enough to clear them.

but like I said the library car shows the changes made to it in the years the navy had the car. it all so shows one used up and in need of rebuilding or scrapping. like it would be after the nave had IT 17 years the claim that this one was in a time capsule and has stayed the same is in it's self a warning. we have yet to see the paper trail of were this car was bought from the government threw the change of owners up to today.

we have the paper trail of the the one the library crushed. from the navy to the library to the crusher. with 4 witnesses and pictures. independent inquires from years ago asking about it and being informed then it was destroyed.

but BJ has the car and they say the numbers match and here is it. possion is 9/10 of the law. you decide. to some, because it was souronded in this mystory it worth big bucks just because it might be. a lot of nuts out there. me I'm woundering what the FSN number for the BJ car is and why it does not appear on any of there paper work
 
Jeremy D. Ledford said:
Just found this news link,

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...ioneers-stand-behind-jfk-ambulance-on-block/1
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The dispute arose after a detailed post by Justin Hyde on Jalopnik that alleges the the real Kennedy ambulance, a converted 1963 Pontiac, was donated by the government to the John F. Kennedy Museum in Boston, which had it crushed. Historians uncovered a letter from a congressman to a constituent and there's a photo of a gray Pontiac ambulance with the correct numbers stenciled on the back in the jaws of the crusher. Case closed? Not at all.


Hoax allegations surround this former Navy ambulance that allegedly carried the body of President John F. Kennedy


CAPTION
By Barrett-Jackson​



Craig Jackson, CEO of Barrett-Jackson, called Drive On after a press conference today to say that an extensive examination of the car shows every indication that it is real. The auction houses experts went through the car, scrapping serial number off parts that appeared to have been covered by years of grease and road grime and matching them up. It all checked out.


"My gut tells me this car has never been tampered with," Jackson says.
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I never questioned that the VIN numbers on the car will match to each other, however, the bigger picture here is if the paper work that is being used to verify the authenticity of this vehicle is legitimate. There have been others that have brought into question this paperwork. The quick way to find out if this is the true ambulance that carried JFK's remains is to remove the 4 screws from the Navy identification plaque on the dash and have the FBI send it to their laboratory in Quantico for analysis. Under microscopic examination, they can tell if the numbers were stamped last year or when the car was manufactured. They will also be able to compare the fonts used then and now. It will be interesting to see if either the seller or the next owner would be willing to put this matter to rest with this level of scrutiny.
I would also like to know if the original Freedom of Information Act documents presented are originals or copies.
 
BJ press release today


“The sale of this vehicle has received media attention from around the world. It has also generated considerable dialogue among and interest from Kennedy historians and even enthusiasts dedicated to the preservation and study of historical ambulances.

As you know, we work diligently to verify to the best of our ability the representations of consignors on every vehicle we offer for sale. In the case of this vehicle, we applied a heightened level of scrutiny because of its historical significance.


The tragic events of November 1963 surrounding the assassination of President John F. Kennedy are some of the most significant in our nation’s history. We are respectful of this fact and are presenting this car for sale with that in mind.

There has been a great deal of discussion about the history of this car at the auction site, in the media, and on various discussion boards on the Internet. Some of that discussion has been very useful in helping both us and the consignor clarify the description of the car. For example, there has been conflicting information about whether the ambulance took the President’s casket and family members from Andrews Air Force Base to Bethesda Naval Hospital and then to the U.S. Capitol building or to the White House. Different versions of these events were even recorded in multiple Associated Press stories in November 1963.

As an auction company, we do not hold ourselves out to be historians, and certainly not experts in the particular history surrounding the unfortunate events of November 1963. There are many people who have dedicated their professional lives to studying the events of this period, and even in that context there remains a great deal of disagreement about many key facts.

As with many other facts related to this topic, the particular details surrounding the history of this ambulance will remain shrouded in mystery for years to come.

For example, there are credible reports that indicate there were two 1963 Pontiac Bonneville ambulances involved in the events of the night of Nov. 23, 1963, with one actually carrying President Kennedy’s casket and family members and the other acting as a diversion.

There is documentation—available for you to review here today—that directly ties the Naval Registration number of the vehicle used to transport President Kennedy’s remains to the physical identification numbers that are stamped in multiple places on the vehicle consigned to our auction.

There are also credible reports—and even photos—that suggest a 1963 Pontiac Bonneville ambulance involved in the situation was ordered to be destroyed in the mid-1980s. Some believe this was the original “JFK Ambulance” while others believe there is not enough proof to link the particular vehicle that was crushed with the one that actually carried the President’s casket.

Since this vehicle was consigned to our auction, we have fielded dozens of inquiries from around the country and reviewed countless documents submitted by interested parties, including our consignor.

Despite all our diligence on this issue, we are unable to either confirm or refute with certainty whether the vehicle offered for sale at auction tomorrow was in fact the vehicle that transported President Kennedy’s casket and his family members. Based on all research and our conversations with experts around the country, we do not believe there is a person alive who can answer this question with certainty.

What we can tell you today is that Barrett-Jackson’s team has physically examined this particular vehicle in great detail. We have confirmed that the historical documentation provided by the consignor matches the results of our physical inspection. For example, we were able to locate and confirm that the engine block does have an engine serial number matching the VIN. We have examined each location of tags and stampings on the vehicle and have compared our findings to the consignor’s documentation. We even located the “hidden VIN” on the vehicle chassis, and confirmed it matched the documentation as well.

These various physical inspections have been performed not just by Barrett-Jackson’s own collector car experts, but also by third-party automotive experts and even members of federal law enforcement.

There will always be a great deal of discussion and speculation around this vehicle and the events surrounding this important time in our nation’s history. We will offer the vehicle for sale tomorrow and invite interested parties to bid with all of this in mind, and based on their own research and examination of the car.”
 
Sounds like they are still in it for the money !
Not as car collectors as they say they are.

At least we have got them to mention that it is possibly a fake.

Way to go PCS and others who have helped shine a light on this situation.

Darren
 
After reading all of this and watching the B.J. press conference video, I would like to know the vin number of the car that was crushed.
 
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