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  #31  
Old 01-02-2011, 09:53 AM
Brady D Smith Brady D Smith is offline
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Default The cluster........

The other "cluster" that occurred at Love field combined with the "cluster" at Andrews, is the reason they changed to a mahogany casket. The bronze was heavily damaged by being drug over the bier pins by agents who had no idea what they were doing but were refusing to let the experts do their jobs.
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  #32  
Old 01-03-2011, 03:58 PM
Jeremy D. Ledford Jeremy D. Ledford is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brady D Smith View Post
The other "cluster" that occurred at Love field combined with the "cluster" at Andrews, is the reason they changed to a mahogany casket. The bronze was heavily damaged by being drug over the bier pins by agents who had no idea what they were doing but were refusing to let the experts do their jobs.

I'd also heard that the handles were broken off the bronze casket to get it into Air Force One as well too.
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  #33  
Old 01-03-2011, 10:16 PM
Dwayne Brooks Dwayne Brooks is offline
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Received a very nice and lengthy email today directly from Steve Davis, president of Barrett-Jackson in regards to our concerns over this ambulance. I will copy & paste it tonight. (posting this quick update from my phone) A quick summary is that this car was attempted to run thru the auction by the former owner but Barrett-Jackson refused it due to a lack of proof. The present owner used the Freedom of Information Act to his advantage and has turned over hard evidence from the Navy that proves this ambulance is authentic without a doubt to be the Kennedy ambulance. The email is much more detailed and they have even made these records available on their site. He goes on to thank the Friends of the Professional Car Society for our concerns & dedication to the cars. A very nice & informative letter indeed, excited to share it later tonight with everyone!
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  #34  
Old 01-04-2011, 12:45 AM
Dwayne Brooks Dwayne Brooks is offline
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Here is the email reply received today, sorry for not pasting it in earlier i had to get to work when this came in.

Quote:
Dwayne,



Thank you for your email.



I appreciate the fact that you took the time to contact us directly.



Barrett-Jackson does take pride in making sure, to the best of our ability, the provenance of a vehicle consigned to our event is accurate, especially one as historically significant as the Kennedy Ambulance.



To that point, we have pulled high-profile vehicles from our docket as the result of uncovering information that disproves a claim by a consignor.



Such was the case last year, with the Buddy Holley Impala, as well as an issue we had with Al Jardine’s Cuda (which we were able to resolve). I have attached the press releases outlining the facts in both of these instances for your reference.



This transparency is one of the reasons Barrett-Jackson was recently chosen as one of the top 100 most ethical companies in the world, the first time an auction company has ever been recognized as such.



As we celebrate our 40th anniversary, it is of the utmost importance for us to embrace the hobby, enthusiasts like yourself, and your organization, and continue to provide a transparent, professional, and honest platform for collectors to buy and sale.



Regarding the concerns expressed by some of your members, I would like to supply the following information:



Barrett-Jackson has in its possession copies, supplied at our request by the consignor, of recently uncovered documents obtained through the Freedom of Information Act from the Department of the Navy/Surgeon General, as well as Superior Coach Corporation, that for the first time, ties the Navy registration number and the VIN number of the 1963 Pontiac Bonneville chassis together.



Barrett-Jackson was previously offered this ambulance for auction, by a different owner, but we refused to accept it, based on the fact that there was no VIN documentation, or provenance, that linked this specific ambulance to the Kennedy ambulance.



Subsequently the new, and current owner, through an extensive investigation, was able to uncover documents, that, as I stated, for the first time, tie the VIN, and Naval registration numbers together.



Documents show, Superior Coach Corporation, in response to a investigation by the Navy, confirmed the Navy registration number, 94-49196, as well as the Navy contract number, DA-20-113-AMC-1236-X, and the serial (VIN) number, 863P198767, of the ambulance that transported JFK, his wife, and brother from Andrews Air Force Base.



The letters referenced above will be placed on our website for review.



In addition, upon arrival of the vehicle to our site, we will also do a physical inspection of the numbers, verify them against all of the paper work and title in our possession, and based on that inspection being satisfactory, will proceed.



Again Dwayne, thanks to you and all the Friends Of The Professional Car Society for the information….our goal is the same, to keep the hobby alive and well.



I wish a Happy New Year to you and all the members of the Professional Car Society.



Best regards,



Steve Davis



















Steve Davis

President

Barrett-Jackson Auction Company, L.L.C.

7400 E. Monte Cristo

Scottsdale, AZ 85260



P. 480.421.6694
F. 480.421.6697
sdavis@barrett-Jackson.com

www.barrett-jackson.com
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  #35  
Old 01-04-2011, 09:55 AM
Todd Merrifield Todd Merrifield is offline
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So, assuming everything checks out, how much will it go for? The 64 was bid up to $900,000...think this one will hit a mil? Barrett-Jackson is very excited about it, and they see a lot of "special" cars...
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  #36  
Old 01-04-2011, 10:46 AM
Rick Duffy Rick Duffy is offline
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Default Saw on a recent TV program

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy D. Ledford View Post
I'd also heard that the handles were broken off the bronze casket to get it into Air Force One as well too.
Jeremy is correct!

I believe this was on the history channel, just before Christmas. The show was an in depth program regarding the Secret Service team assigned to the Kennedy's at the time of the assasination. All were interviewed, it was VERY moving and quite emotional for the agents.

One agent discussed the "cluster" at the airport. and stated that the bronze casket handles were indeed broken, as they tried to wedge the casket through the door of Airforce One, prior to leaving Love Field for DC. He reiterated that they had a VERY difficult time getting the casket aboard the aircraft and as a result, the handles were broken off in order to make it fit through the doorway.
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  #37  
Old 01-04-2011, 11:11 AM
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Kent Dorsey Kent Dorsey is offline
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This thread has had some of the most interesting dialogue and discussion for days... I checked in several times a day to get updates on comments...
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  #38  
Old 01-04-2011, 12:48 PM
Aaron Greene Aaron Greene is offline
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Looking at the engine compartment picture from the pontiacsonline link I see some things that would question the original, unrestored statment. But the one thing that stood out to me is that this appears to be a Non Air Conditioned car?
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  #39  
Old 01-04-2011, 01:29 PM
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John ED Renstrom John ED Renstrom is offline
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some one needs to get together with this owner and have him teach us how to research our ambulances. if they can document the car leaving gm (gm assigned vin number), arriving at superior put in the assembly line(sill and superior number) to get built in the lot being sold to gsa and being assigned that number( navy Id ) from the dept of the navy. then sold at auction to a privet sell. never licenced or had taxes paid on it. all that threw the gm vin number then everyone with a superior should be able to do the same with there car. I'm still doubt full. I would have to see how they linked the three sets of numbers together. the gm vin number the superior production number and the navy tag. all these numbers one would be able to find. the Nave number is painted on. the brass tag stamped and attached by 4 screws. they claim to know that only 15 were built by superior in 63 and sold to GSA. any one of the the Pon sold to superior could have been this car. with all the hype on the Kennedy memorable why would anyone if they had the car stay mum till now. if you went to the auction the number would not have been advertised just that they were selling a ambulance lot number what ever. you buy it not knowing of it place in HX. numbers painted out on the doors, brass tag still on the dash. you then don't licence it but put it in a corner of your barn for 40 years or better. or you have inside info on the car the navy that is been using as a ambulance for the last 10 years. you watch and wait for it to be sold at some date. as you don't know when it will be you watch close. never telling anyone why you and only you are keeping a eye on it. it sells, you get it as you know all about it. you then hide it away as now it's yours. only to dragged out washed off and as good as the day it was put in. after your gone.

to much for me to believe that no one else knew of the car and to easy to make one. a 100 Gs spend on a reproduction with a chance of gaining a mill. been a lot less spent on a sting.
not one of the people in that video saw anymore of the gray navy ambulance to ID it then we just did. if you can find out all that on the car. were is the sailor or nurse that drove the car out to the base. or anyone else that can say they drove it, or were in it, or washed it, or changed the oil on it. or backed into a post with it, scratched there initials in the dash waiting for the military something. were is the info on the car in service that no one else that wanted to could find??

sorry this is like ever other bit of fiction . either you buy the bit and go along or you don't. nothing in this letter would convince me to open up my wallet
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  #40  
Old 01-04-2011, 02:48 PM
Kevin O'Connell Kevin O'Connell is offline
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I'm with Ed. I'm still not convinced but if the guy can produce the actual documentation and prove that the nomenclature plate is authentic, good for him. The lettering on this car matches the incorrect lettering on Kosoff's car. Its appearance changed several times after Bobb acquired it. In addition to the C5, Kosoff also had a pair of SignalStat lollipop lights on it for a while. In any hobby, once you establish yourself as a profiteer you can reasonably expect people to view all your dealings with a jaundiced eye.
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