Motor oil for our engines

John Burchfield

PCS Life Member
A few months ago I was down at the barn preparing to change the oil in my '69 M-M and drive it home. I called Gene Smith about something else and he mentioned that I'd better check to see if my Havoline 30wt had the appropriate additives. Apparently as these SAE service designations for motor oil have advanced, some additive(s) crucial for older engines have been left out of many brands of oil. Gene had researched this a while back but couldn't remember the details. I think he said he'd switched to Mobil One for his ambulances. The crucial additive is a three or four letter acronym. I know I may be repeating a previously asked question, but this is something pretty important to all of us, as using a "too modern" motor oil will apparently cause premature valvetrain wear. I know that by 1972 or '73 the manufacturers knew that unleaded gas was on the way and "low lead" gasoline began appearing around then. What was the break point for when this crucial additive was needed? The end of the high compression engines was the 1971 model year, and catalytic converters showed up nearly across the board in 1975 so I'm wondering if mid 70s and up models might be OK w/ modern oils? Thanks for your help!
 
motor oil and ZDDP

John,
Check the website: www.motorheadoil.com
This company has the oil additives that are now lacking because of government mandates and industry changes and requirements. They are located in Dayton, Ohio.
ZDDP is the stuff that is lacking in the oil some of our cars started life with.
Phone numbers are 937.254.2673 and 1 800 343 8649.
If I remember from their ads the oil they sell is not much more than a good quality oil from todays suppliers.
Hope this is of some help to you and others.
Mike
 
ZDDP is the additive that has been "halved" in modern engine oils to provide longer service life of the catalytic converter. The purpose of ZDDP is to prevent wear, however, it isn't as important in a "used" engine as it is in a newly rebuilt engine. If you care to read about it, here is a website that covers the subject as well as can be done. This "paper" was originally written for MG owners, however, it has a lot of good general information. You will need Adobe Reader to access this article, since it is in a PDF format. If you decide to use a modern oil and want to add the "anti wear" factor of ZDDP to the engine oil, you can purchase small tubes of it from your local GM dealership. It is sold as a break in additive, EPS. The old part number is # 88862586 or AC DELCO 12371532, which has been superseded by GM part #88862586. If there is no GM dealership near you, then you can purchase it directly from GM at this website.

Presently there are two oils that still have the proper amounts of ZDDP in them... Valvoline VR-1 Racing Motor Oil and Brad-Penn Penn-Grade 1 Racing 20w50 Motor Oil. Both are quite expensive as compared to regular motor oil, but it is worth the difference once you find out what an engine rebuild is going to cost you.
 
I'm finally getting around to reading an article about this by Rick Ehrenberg, S.A.E., the tech guru at Mopar Action magazine. The article appears in the October, 2010 issue, but the December issue is already in the newsstands.
On the Mopar Action website, Rick states, "The only current oil I'm aware of with enough ZDDP to save flat tappet cams is Mobil 1 15W50. Otherwise, use any oil with a pure ZDDP additive dumped in. (Don't go nuts only need 1200-1500 PPM, and modern oils have 600-800.) I'd not go thinner than 10W30, however. The Oct., 2010 issue of MA will cover this topic in detail."
The article closed with the recommendation that "Any high-quality ZDDP engine oil (or additive) will benefit the life of the camshaft. Typically the diesel and motorcycle rated oils have higher ZDDP content....Staying above 1000 ppm ZDDP is beneficial..."
If you can find the issue, it's great, informative reading, as is everything else Rick researches and writes about.
(I was about to write that Paul certainly has some good info to add, but he beat me to it by one minute!)
 
By happy coincidence, included in the goody bags at the AACA meet we attended last weekend in Pinehurst, NC was a bottle of "ZDDPlus" along with their brochure. A four ounce bottle is good for a 5 qt. oil change. Manufactured by ZPlus, LLC zddplus.com
So it looks like you can continue using your regular oil w/ this additive. Retail price appears to be around 10.00 so you'll have to figure what's cheaper/better to use: modern oil plus additive, Mobil 1 or something else w/ adequate ZDDP like the classic oil mentioned by Brendan. Obviously if you have a stockpile of modern oil the additive would be the cheaper way to go. In any event your oil change winds up being at least 4.50/quart. Like premium gas, if it protects our engines it's worth it in the long run. Most of us don't put too many miles on our old cars, but this makes our hobby a bit more expensive!
 
Zddp

I use Valvoline VR-1 20-50 Racing Oil "Not for street use" in my drag race car and in my 80 year old cars. The ZDDP additive is as high as that new fancy brand motor oil that advertises high ZDDP, but is much cheaper. I have talked to the people in the Valvoline Technical Department, and they really know their stuff. The ZDDP helps the oil cling to metal surfaces for long periods of time, so when start-up occurs, there is lubricant there to limit wear when engine has sat a long time between starts. I'm very sold on Valvoline!!
Mike:17875:
 
I use Valvoline VR-1 20-50 Racing Oil "Not for street use" in my drag race car and in my 80 year old cars. The ZDDP additive is as high as that new fancy brand motor oil that advertises high ZDDP, but is much cheaper. I have talked to the people in the Valvoline Technical Department, and they really know their stuff. The ZDDP helps the oil cling to metal surfaces for long periods of time, so when start-up occurs, there is lubricant there to limit wear when engine has sat a long time between starts. I'm very sold on Valvoline!!
Mike:17875:

Thanks Mike! This raises the question about viscosity in my mind. I've always used straight 30wt in my older cars ('65-'72) and 10W-30 in the newer old cars ('73-'94). Does 20W-50 do ok in these older engines? At least w/ a couple of bottles of ZDDP I can now change the oil in my '69 and '73 and get them out out w/o fear of damaging the valve train :)
 
Viscosity

Yes, the multi viscosity oil is even better than the straight weight oil. When the engine is cold the oil is thinner for better lubrication, then after warm-up the oil gets thicker for better oil pressure and body.

I forgot to mention in the last post that Valvoline VR-1 racing oil has ZDDP level of 1400. The high ZDDP oils have from 1000 to 1500 ppm as mentioned before.

Valvoline VR-1 is for me......

Mike
 
Multiple weight oil doesn't change its viscosity as the engine temperature change, but it remains the same, or slightly thinner. What the multi viscosity numbers mean, is that when cold, it lubricates like a thinner oil, and when hot, it gives the protection of a thicker weight oil.
Since Bob the Oil Guy seems to be the Internet authority on the subject of oils, I will quote from his pearly words of wisdom.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/

MULTI-VISCOSITY OILS
"Multi viscosity oils have polymers added to a light base (5W, 10W, 20W), which prevent the oil from thinning as much as it warms up. At cold temperatures the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up, the polymers begin to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100 degrees C, the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 20W-50 as a 20 weight oil that will not thin more than a 50 weight would when hot.

Multi-viscosity oils are one of the great improvements in oils, but they should be chosen wisely. Always use a multi-grade with the narrowest span of viscosity that is appropriate for the temperatures you are going to encounter. In the winter, base your decision on the lowest temperature you will encounter; in the summer, the highest temperature you expect.

10W-40 and 5W-30 require a lot of polymers (synthetics excluded) to achieve that range. The polymers can shear and burn, forming deposits that can cause ring sticking and other problems. This has caused problems in diesel engines, but fewer polymers are better for all engines. The wide viscosity range oils, in general, are more prone to viscosity and thermal breakdown due to the high polymer content. It is the oil that lubricates, not the additives. Oils that can do their job with the fewest additives are the best. Follow your manufacturer's recommendations as to which weights are appropriate for your vehicle. "

Now, that you have read all that, it brings us to the subject of synthetic oils. With synthetic oils, choose the one that most closely relates to the lowest expected temperature that you will be experiencing, and use the oil that is appropriate for that temperature. If you have an older engine, I don't recommend that you use synthetic oil in it, since its tolerances were never designed for these thinner oils, and leaks will abound.

For those that want a more "professional" opinion... Here is the same thing from Businessweek........
 
don't care what they say. but I do know that if you set a jug of 10-30 oil and one of 15-40 oil out side the door at 10 below. the next morning the only one that will pour out of the bottle is the 15-40, I have been using the fleet service oils in my cars ever since. when you start a cold engine you want a oil that flows not one that has to warm up before it does. we can buy the additive at the locale parts store nothing special here.
 
Back
Top