1957 DeSoto CD Ambulance- who converted it?

the information Jack has put out shows why it difficult to Id some of these. they used of similar materials from the same companies. the majority of smaller manufactures would purchase, as making excursion in house were not practical. along with the expense of scratch building things that could be purchased a fixed cost like jump seats. emblems can be removed sometime during a repaint or repair along with trim. bumpers get redone uploristery recovered just in keeping the car for one more run. but things like body construction, glass, drip rail placement, roof design or materials (pinter used scrap yard panel wagons for their roof's) normally stayed the same. the bubble butt on a Memphis sticks out from a mile away. other times it's small body lines one used but not the other. thats why you need the 3 clear shots. one straight on from the side, one straight on from the rear, one straight on from the front. the process of ID one of the not commonly seen cars is as stated, one of ruling out, not one of thats it. it's not this because of that kind of thing. there are not a lot of pictures of the smaller manufactures work. we are lucky that Jack and Tom have shared with us there collection of Pinners contributions. but I will say if you concentrate on one of builders on the internet you can be suprised the information you can find. having posted this same question on this same site on my Pontiac. I can share experiences with you. not a lot of cars out there to compare with from the smaller manufactures and they are miles apart. but the one hint jack gave, the hinges on the rear loading door. that one makes is a easy rule out, if you have pictures of the rear. surprising on how few pictures of the rear of cars there is out there. something for you picture collectors out there to remember. me I'm working off the shape of tunnel lights and one body line stamped in the side. using that information I have found 2 other cars with the same features. but none of there owners had any Ida of who built their cars either. so I have a I'm sure it's but not yet any positive proof. we keep working on that manufacture from every angle we can to find the positive proof. the good news is I have not been able to rule out them as of yet. so now you know a lot of who did not and one possible who did. work that from different angles and see if you can rule them out. if not it's most likely them till you can find your positive proof.

who built the chrysler factory ambulances is still a mystery. but every one of the smaller guys were willing to bring more business in there shop. you would not of thought of one of the big 3 farming out their work but it was common practice with GM. H&E made a lot of money with them.

John ED Renstrom said:

the information Jack has put out shows why it difficult to Id some of these. they used of similar materials from the same companies. the majority of smaller manufactures would purchase, as making excursion in house were not practical. along with the expense of scratch building things that could be purchased a fixed cost like jump seats. emblems can be removed sometime during a repaint or repair along with trim. bumpers get redone uploristery recovered just in keeping the car for one more run. but things like body construction, glass, drip rail placement, roof design or materials (pinter used scrap yard panel wagons for their roof's) normally stayed the same. the bubble butt on a Memphis sticks out from a mile away. other times it's small body lines one used but not the other. thats why you need the 3 clear shots. one straight on from the side, one straight on from the rear, one straight on from the front. the process of ID one of the not commonly seen cars is as stated, one of ruling out, not one of thats it. it's not this because of that kind of thing. there are not a lot of pictures of the smaller manufactures work. we are lucky that Jack and Tom have shared with us there collection of Pinners contributions. but I will say if you concentrate on one of builders on the internet you can be suprised the information you can find. having posted this same question on this same site on my Pontiac. I can share experiences with you. not a lot of cars out there to compare with from the smaller manufactures and they are miles apart. but the one hint jack gave, the hinges on the rear loading door. that one makes is a easy rule out, if you have pictures of the rear. surprising on how few pictures of the rear of cars there is out there. something for you picture collectors out there to remember. me I'm working off the shape of tunnel lights and one body line stamped in the side. using that information I have found 2 other cars with the same features. but none of there owners had any Ida of who built their cars either. so I have a I'm sure it's but not yet any positive proof. we keep working on that manufacture from every angle we can to find the positive proof. the good news is I have not been able to rule out them as of yet. so now you know a lot of who did not and one possible who did. work that from different angles and see if you can rule them out. if not it's most likely them till you can find your positive proof.

who built the chrysler factory ambulances is still a mystery. but every one of the smaller guys were willing to bring more business in there shop. you would not of thought of one of the big 3 farming out their work but it was common practice with GM. H&E made a lot of money with them.

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Jack Pinner said:

The exposed rear door hinges and original side doors headers are typical of Weller. Everyone else used hidden door hinges and straightened the side door headers to match the rear quarter window.

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Jack and Ed,

Below is the image of the rear door on Brads car with the huge hinge, then below that is the image of the National Station Wagon Ambulance I posted and you can notice on the rear door almost the identical hinge. I’m not sure what to think about the hinge in terms of identifying the builder but I’m just pointing out the hinges as I know the station wagon ambulance wagon is in fact a National Coach Company of Knightstown Ind. car.

Back door hinge on Brads car



Back door hinge on the National Station Wagon ambulance

Jack Pinner said:

The exposed rear door hinges and original side doors headers are typical of Weller. Everyone else used hidden door hinges and straightened the side door headers to match the rear quarter window.
Jack Pinner
Pinner Coach Company
1958-1971

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Jack I beg to differ regarding exposed hinges for identification. Pinner used them through at least 1963 on some applications ( OWB 63 Chevy Pinner Factory photo provided). Memphis used them as well at least through 1959. Comet at least through 1957. National into the 60's. And numerous small coachbuilders did not always straighten door headers. Comet and Memphis (Memphian) are just 2 I found doing a quick search that did not in all cases.

Richard Brothers used big, ugly, exposed hinges as well into the '60s.

57

Richard Brothers used big, ugly, exposed hinges as well into the '60s.

Hinges

Cary

The fire of 1971 destroyed most of our records and picture. Tom and I have been talking this afternoon an still do not remember using exposed hinges. I have just gone through every picture I have and did find a 63 station wagon conversion that had exposed hinges. Tom and I believe that this was a low budget conversion. That may be the same with the Chevy. 99% of the rear doors we built had hidden hinges.
As for side door headers have not found any that we did not raise to match the rear quarter glass. Do you have a full side and rear view of the Chevrolet you posted? I would love to see them. The only headers we remember that were left original were the OWB station wagons. I know that there were several that left the sedan door headers and used the exposed hinges. That was not our normal conversion.
I still believe the Desoto is a Weller conversion because of the style and material used. We did a few Desoto OWB from 1959-62 for the Memphis dealership. Troy Davis built one about 1960<>. He had trouble selling it so Dad sold it for him and I delivered it to a funeral home in southern Illinois.
Dad, Horace and Troy did not build any coaches until after there non compete agreement with Comet expired in 1958.
Jack Pinner

Going back a bit in the discussion, to the topic of sedans vs. wagons, let me offer this up. Brad's ambulance is certainly built from a sedan. Here's a photo of my '57 Desoto Fireflite Explorer wagon. This was a factory wagon and was not built by a coachbuilder - the fire department bought it from a Desoto dealer and just put a stretcher in it when needed.

As you can see from mine, the tailfin starts back of the side door. Also the taillights are angled differently - on a sedan, they are angled so the top of the taillight is further to the rear than the bottom. On my wagon, the top of the taillight angles the opposite direction, the top is closer to the front. And the rear "exhaust ports" (dummies on mine, not sure on Brads) are in very different locations.

The top of the back (side) door is a very different shape, my wagon is one smooth curve, vs. the sedan/ambulance having a gentle curve, then an angle.

This has turned into quite the conundrum. But the discussion is good.

Steve,
Beautiful DeSoto!!!!!

The exhaust ports on mine are active, but I'm not sure I will leave them that way. The purists say I HAVE to...but at the cost of chroming parts, I say no. There is a reason manufacturers stopped running exhaust through bumper ports. I know Cadillac had lots of warranty issues...

we know the desoto in question is not a national. if the one you pictured (post 42) is a national conversion of the wagon it looks just like the pictures of the factory car. has no national script at all. hinge or no hinge the door is different. as are the hinges.

Not sure if this will help with this conversation but I found a clipping I had of a 57 that was for sale many years ago, this one says Comet.

Daniel Scully said:

Richard Brothers used big, ugly, exposed hinges as well into the '60s.

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Does anyone know the current owner and whereabouts of this car? I saw it in person one day when it drove in (unexpectantly) to an ATHS Truck Show at March Field (Riverside County-CA). At the time it was owned by an elderly gentlemen and drove in by his young granddaughter. It was INCREDIBLY Clean and Original. He said that it was an (un-marked) Civil Defense Rig used in Montana or one of the Dakota's (as I recall) by a Volunteer Fire Department? MM

Are there any other pictures of certain parts of the car I can take, that might reveal who built it from the conversion technique or parts used?

Also, I have some measurements of the footprints and hole patterns of the lights and siren mounts...

close up details are good if you have a car to compare them with. but with out another car to compare they don't do a whole lot of good. the factory shot were normally dead on the side. that is you best bet until another one surfaces to compare with. mean time wash the car off take nice shots of the car from all 4 sides not in bright sunlight(that will wash out details) and close up pictures as you disassemble it. keep looking the clues will pop up over time. here is one I used to confirm my car is not a Barnette. at a glance they look the same. but the clue is in the details. we spent a night in canada with a nice man and his equally nice wife just to rule this pair in and out. but after comparing them I can say mine is not a barnette. again knowing the details of mine and getting to see another car in person the same year is what made the difference. here was the clincher on the two models. first pictures is the one I was working on thinking yes. the second one is how we knew it was not. remember now is the time to take those first detailed and all over shots. one you start on it you can't go back to do that.

Well, I sent off a letter, along with a cheque, to the Chrysler Historical division of FCA, and after it was returned once, due to the address not being PERFECT (Grrr!!) I received information, on the build date, and where the 4 door sedan my ambulance is based on, was sold. And it was sold in...Memphis!

Here are scans of the card, and letter:

once can start buy determining what it is not. I'll share my collections of late 50s from the people doing business ten building on chy chassis I would be leaning on Richard Brothers as the closest but they liked there rear door to swing out level and had there script just behind the headlight on the font fender

you don't find anyone else using the factory rear door with out modifying the top.
58 barnett, 58 national, 58 comet, 58 universal,59 Memphis. 60 weiller and the last 61 richard brothers

I believe that Richard Brothers always started with a station wagon. Ship to location pretty much rules out Richard Brothers also.

we covered the plays in Memphis. comet was the only other choice there of one building off a 4 door sedan. but I still don't see any with the factory doors.

it's not impossible that it was a run by any of them on a government contract.
to there specks. they would have nothing to do with there normal cars. like the sedan deliveries built by Economy for Meteor. they were two different cars

just to refresh memories here is the car from the add.

After re-reading this thread and considering all of the written as well as visual evidence, my money says this girl is a Comet combination.

I would love to find out for sure some day...!

Richard Brothers

Kurt Arends said:

I believe that Richard Brothers always started with a station wagon. Ship to location pretty much rules out Richard Brothers also.

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A few pics.