Seat belts in historical vehicles...

I was wondering today what the current sentiment of the old car hobby is in regard to seat belts. The reason that I bring this up now, is because the local communities around here are now looking for additional revenue, and seat belt tickets are on the rise.
I know that in California that they are required in all vehicles sold after January 1, 1962..

CVC 27314. (a) No dealer shall sell or offer for sale any used
passenger vehicle that was manufactured on or after January 1, 1962,
other than a motorcycle, unless it is equipped with at least two
seatbelts which are installed for the use of persons in the front
seat of the vehicle.
(b) No dealer shall sell or offer for sale any used passenger
vehicle manufactured on or after January 1, 1968, other than a
motorcycle, unless it is equipped with seatbelts for each seating
position.
(c) Seatbelts required in subdivisions (a) and (b) shall comply
with regulations established by the department.
(d) The requirements of this section shall not apply to sales to
dealers, automobile dismantlers, or junk dealers.

CVC 27315(d)(1) provides: "No person shall operate a motor vehicle on a highway unless that person and all passengers 16 years of age or over are properly restrained by a safety belt. This paragraph does not apply to the operator of a taxicab, as defined in Section 27908, when the taxicab is driven on a city street and is engaged in the transportation of a fare-paying passenger. The safety belt requirement established by this paragraph is the minimum safety standard applicable to employees being transported in a motor vehicle. This paragraph does not preempt any more stringent or restrictive standards imposed by the Labor Code or any other state or federal regulation regarding the transportation of employees in a motor vehicle."
In New Hampshire, the use of seat belts is only required for persons under the age of 18. They truly live up to there state motto... "Live Free or Die".:thumbsup:

Personally, done with taste, I think they are a good idea. Arkansas does not require seatbelts in any vehicle before they were federally mandated. My 56 Fleetwood does not have seatbelts and on a few occasions, with the crazy drivers of today, I have really thought about installing them. Nothing like grabbing ahold that that big wheel and holding on for dear life. I plan on installing a set of lap belts in my 55 S&S when the time comes. At shows, they can be tucked away under the seat and unless anyone specifically looks there, they will not be noticed. I will probably go ahead and do this with my 56 as well. Most shows do not deduct points for added safety equipment and in today's world installation of seat belts should not be an issue authenticity wise, as long as it is done tastefully.

Jeff

getting belted

As far as I know at this time Ohio does not have a retro fit rule/law for seat belts. If it had belts when new then it should have them now. We use them all the time in the more modern cars. I have been thinking about installing them in the 61 MM. Just lap belts. I am not sure how stout the division window frame may be. Maybe we can get Ron to chime in on this one for more on Ohio's requirements.
Mike

Your 1961 should have the floor mounts already installed. GM started installing the mounting pads in all the cars in late 1960. I checked my 1963 Chrysler and the mounting pads are already installed in the floor for lap belts. Just haven't installed them yet.

in place pads

Thanks for the tip Paul. I will be checking this out soon.
Mike

Ed is installing seatbelts into my 1966 during its restoration.

I'm installing lap belts in both my '52 Sedan and my '51 National. The main reason is I will not let my grandkids ride in either with out them. It is purely a safety issue for them. What I am doing as well is I got some of the old school seat belt roll ups that attach to the belts so that they automatically roll up when not in use (like a window shade). That way they are not laying all over the seat.

belt rollers

Joe,
I had forgotten about those little rollers. Somethingelse to look for next week. They say your memory is the first thing to go...I forget what the second thing is. Maybe Paul can help here too.
Mike
61 MM

Mike Stevens said:

As far as I know at this time Ohio does not have a retro fit rule/law for seat belts. If it had belts when new then it should have them now. We use them all the time in the more modern cars. I have been thinking about installing them in the 61 MM. Just lap belts. I am not sure how stout the division window frame may be. Maybe we can get Ron to chime in on this one for more on Ohio's requirements.
Mike

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In Ohio vehicles not originally manufactured with them are exempt. Personally I don't like wearing the ones that were manufactured in the vehicle.

Mike Stevens said:

Joe,
I had forgotten about those little rollers. Something else to look for next week. They say your memory is the first thing to go...I forget what the second thing is. Maybe Paul can help here too.
Mike
61 MM

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Mike..... the good news is that I will give you the same advise that my doctor gave me last Monday. "Don't buy green banana's..............














and don't buy more than one at a time."

in the grate state of Sd only the front passengers need to be restraint. and livery service is exempt. the under 18 rule applies thought no matter were they are riding. as are the car seats but not booster seats. the 72 ambulance has seat belt in the rear the 72 Seville does not, nor the 73 S&S. the 86 limo has none for the center passengers. but the 89 I had did for all places. the 86 caddy has shoulder harnesses for the rear out side. the same car in the limo does not have the shoulder harness. i can't figure out any of it. the way I figure is there in there if you want to use them go right ahead.

My 63 Cadillac has the mounting pads and lapbelts.

Seat Belts

I actually just got my order in from SeatBeltsPlus.com which I am installing for the sake of my children. I went with the lap seat belt that has the chrome lift latch to try staying as close to period correct as I could. I hope I never see the day where their purpose is warranted, but it would be better than not having them and having to say "if only I had..."

I recently learned about an accident where the owner of an older car that was never built for seat belts installed them by bolting them to the frame of the car. He was in a intersection accident, and the body of the car was pushed off the frame, causing him to have severe pelvic injuries, since his body was held in place, and the car body moved. In this instance, he would have been better off without a seat belt.

seatbelt anchors

Pauls comment draws attention to an important issue. How do you mount seatbelts in an older car? I have had to retrofit many older cars in the past. If there was a mounting area put in the cars design at production the choice is easy. Pauls example of a mount to the frame points out that mounting to a component that may deform and is the strongest portion of a car body may not be the answer.

In the end its a best guess, however, an important aspect is to pay attention to the anchor hole in a floor pan, etc. You may want to reinforce the mounting area since many older cars are weak in these areas and you don't want the seatbelt tearing out of the mounting. Rust in the area is cause for concern but plain old design issues are sometimes just as relevant.

retro fitting back into one that never was designed for them is always touche.
especially if you wanting to do shoulder harnesses. most of the older cars the body would crumple in a manner that would either tighten the strap cutting off the persons head at the neck or loosen it letting them slip out of it. but if you go to the seat frame your usually safe. best bet is to swap for a set of seats that have the belts and harness in them like a chevy pick up 2000 up. then when the seat bolts tear out of the floor they can find you still strapped in it. but if your going to do it when you get the belts get everything that goes with them. that includes the plate under the floor the nut is welded to. then spot weld them back in the same way. in the same place. thats the way I'm putting them in Jim's 66. if you have ever used a set in a 70s Hearse you know right now the shoulder harness is a joke. you'll fall right out of that thing the way it's rigged. who tested in the 70's

Seat Belts

Pauls comment draws attention to an important issue. How do you mount seatbelts in an older car? I have had to retrofit many older cars in the past. If there was a mounting area put in the cars design at production the choice is easy. Pauls example of a mount to the frame points out that mounting to a component that may deform and is the strongest portion of a car body may not be the answer.

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I found all the correct latches and had the belts rewebbed , where there was no oem mounting plates we use plate with a square nut welded to that to give a oem appearance.

Pic

One more .

Nice pictures, however, why aren't your passengers buckled up? One thing that needs to be said if you are going to be making your own mounting hardware, is to use Grade 8 nuts, and to make sure that the flat stock that you are using is of a sufficient grade that it will hold in the event of an accident. Seat belts are only as strong as the weakest link in the installation. :thumbsup:

My '72 Pontiac has lap belts, but I want to look into installing shoulder restraints as well. Without air bags, every little bit helps. (Guess that was being in the EMS business does to me.) I am a newbie here, but I would think that a judge wouldn't mark a Pro Car down if it added such safety devices.

Terry