Trim and Headliner Removal Techniques???

Hello to all that read this,

I am New to the "Professional Car" world/Scene, And own a couple of Pro Cars myself that I am in Various Stages of Restoration.

I Am currently in the Tear Down Process on one of the Cars in which I'm going to try to Remove the trim to Prep the Body for a New Coat of Paint and various Repairs.

(That Being a 1970 Pontiac Bonneville Hi-Top Ambulance by Superior)

Due to the Fact that these "Cars" are Unusual to many and getting harder and harder to find, I am Trying to be Very Cautious upon removing any of the trim off of the cars.

I made the big mistake of Breaking one of the "End Caps" on one of the trim lines, (Which made me Sick) Luckily I may have found a Donor Car for that Part.

So I come before you today seeking tips and Pointers on how exactly the best way to Remove some of the Unique Trim off of these cars without Damaging the Car or the trim itself.

(I know most Auto Part's Stores Carry Various Tools for removing Trim and that sorta thing but I'm not sure that they would apply to the form used on this type of Car?)

The Main Areas That I have in Question are/is ...... The Trim around the windows (Not sure if that would/will Require Removal of the Window and Window Supports?)

And the Trim & Emblems that Span across & On the sides of the Roof that is Covered by the Headliner.

I really hate the thought of having to Remove the Headliner to Access these Trim Mount Supports/Screws/Bolts, But I really don't see an Alternative to doing just that........So.... With that being said......Whats the Best and Correct way to Remove the Headliner in these type of Cars?
As I don't want to damage the Fabric used for the Headliner as I'm sure its been long discontinued.

And the Chances of being able to Locate it at any area Auto Upholstry Fabricators, would probably be pretty slim.

........I kinda Feel Dumb asking all this as I'm sure its probably a Fairly Simple Procedure/Task.....But Being new to all of this (Pro Car Restoration) I hate to just Guess and Assume things when it Comes to these Cars that are Very Unique and hard to Come by.

I Thank you All in Advance for any Tips, Techniques and Support you may have to offer me.

-Ryan
 
OK I hate to tell you this but your asking the nursing home question, the answer is it depends:D. that being said we do have a few members in the club that are redoing one of these right now. I really think you will have to remove the glass to get the trim off the rear windows. to get the belt line trim off the doors you will have to remove the door glass. usually you will just drop it down enough to get to the screws, then put the glass back in. the last poncho I saw taken apart used the saw teeth to hold the headliner in. one can usually get away with taking the sides loose and then reaching up to get at the nuts holding the moldings on. the crown molding I have never had off. the big thing is to take a lot of pictures as you disassemble. this will give you the clues you need next year when your trying to get it back together.
there is a lot of GM and superior fasteners some on the same line of trim. the only part of the car that GM made is the front clip. start on one piece and go slow until your sure how it comes off. you can buy all the tools the make and the only one you will use is one of those little wounder bars. of it cast and you don't see any screws then it's held on from the inside. if it's stamped then you can lift one end to see how they put it on. it may be t bolted from the inside it may have snap on a hold clips or pop over clips. it always guess work till you get it apart. one other key is don't throw anything away not until you completely finished on the car, it is all back together and everything works.. then look really hard before you toss it.
 
Trim and Headliner

John,

Thanks for your Input, thats kinda the way I've been approaching it so far, is to be VERY careful and Not Push anything too far.

As for the Window Trim, Removing the Window's was really the only option I see I have as It Appears that the Trim is Held in place Partially by the Rubber Window Seal/Gaskets (Which I'm sure will probably have to be Replaced as well:()

As for the rest of the Roof Trim, Like the Side Roof Marker Light and the Trim Strip that Spans across the Sides over the top to the Other side, And then I think there might be a Chrome "Cross" Emblem's on each side that'll need to be Removed as well.

The Only Reason I feel these need to be removed is not only are some of the Trim and Emblems "Pitted" and "Tarnished" from the Elements over the Years, but the Paint and Finish around them is Cracked and showing its age. So in order to fix that they will need to be Removed. So that area can be Prep'd and Fixed if needed.

In a way I sorta feel like a CSI almost as every Piece of Trim or Nut/Bolt/Screw I Individually Bag and Label Just so I know what goes where when its time to reassemble everything after the Paint Job.

I think I could Probably Start a hardware Store with all the Nuts and Bolts and other odds and Ends I've "Bagged"

And I can Assure you Nothing Gets Thrown!

I'm just New to all of this (Pro Car Restoration) and I had a Few Questions that I didn't really think any of the "Local's" or the Area Body Shops would be able to help me with due to the Vintage and the Type of Car. So I figured I'd approach People who have probably delt with this stuff in the past, and thats where all the Helpful people from "The Friends of the Professional Car Society" come in.

I'm sure as I further my Restoration Process, I will have More Questions, and I thank all of you that have sent me Messages and E-Mails with tips and Pointers on the Restoration, and I welcome anyone else who thinks that they may be able to help.

-Ryan
 
The door window seals and glass track runners are available from Restoration Specialties & Supply, Inc., PO Box 328, Windber, PA 15963(814) 467-9842 (814) 467-9282 and click here to view there catalog. One of the best ways to determine if what you see in the catalog is correct for your car, is to either request a sample of the part, or send them your old part to have them match it. Doing glass work isn't difficult, but it does require patience. One thing that will help, is if you spray the bolt heads with a contrasting paint color than the inside of the door panel. That way, when you put everything back together, you will have the paint marks to index where the bolt settings are. If you are thinking of removing the glass totally from the door, you will first need to remove the vent window assembly and the front window run channel. This is part of the vent assembly. While you have the glass out, now is a good time to clean out the inside of the bottom of the door itself. Once cleaned, you can open the drain holes, and determine if there is rust that will need to be treated. There is nothing more rewarding than to know that you did the repair yourself, and now it works like it did when it was new.
Moving onto the rear quarter upper body crosses. These are held on by stamped PAL nuts that screw over the studs that go through the body. The crosses themselves are made of die cast, and they can be re-chromed. Getting good chrome work isn't going to be cheap, so keep in mind that the quality that you want, will be dependent on the cost. I have seen many a die cast part perfectly restored to its original beauty, and other pieces that come back from the plater so poorly done, that you have wasted your money. If you have a question about the quality of work of the shop that you are using, PM me and I will let you know what I have heard about the quality. Many times a good shop will turn out inferior work one week, and the next week it is perfect. Many times, you only get one chance at having the part plated, because if they grind it too much, and detail is lost, there is no repairing it. Paul
 
Trim

The Superior roof is the same from 65-70 Cadillac or Pontiac. That being said there are different trim levels on each. Here are a few pics of my 68 Crown in work. The window trim on the rear door and rear corner glass has small screws that hold it on , the screws can only be reached by taking out the glass first. The belt line moldings where the side of the roof meets the 1/4 panel has about a billion small screws with t - bolts and is only accessible by taking out the side panels . All the trim on my 68 such as the crown bow and side pieces have bolts that again can only be accessible by taking out the headliner and side panels. I have the 70 Pontiac Superior parts book on PDF. Send me a thumb dive with at least a 4g memory and I will send you parts manuals from 55-74 which covers Cadillac’s and some Pontiacs of those years. This will help with disassembly and reassemble. Send me a Pm for my address. If you can post some pics of the trim you are trying to remove that would help also on an answer.

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I thank you both Paul and Daniel, for your very Helpful insight as it pertains to the Trim.

I will try and get some Pics Posted or available for E-Mail Here Shortly, Showing the Particular Trim and Emblem Pieces I'm refering to.

I've gotten most of the Rear Interior Stripped out and was hoping I wouldn't have to touch the headliner, But it is looking like I may have to.
So thats something that I'm not looking foward too.
Along with having to Replace the flooring in the back as a Result of Wear and Tear over the Years!

Another thing I just thought of........
I'll try to explain it to the best of my Ability so bear with me,
But in the Back of the Ambulance where the Attendents would sit if they were working on a Patient or whatever, there is that flat piece where they would sit that Has the Rails with the adjustable Hooks Mounted to it.......Between that Pannel and the Window is another Piece of Upholstry that runs along side both pieces and eventually Curves Off Flush with the Rear Quarter Windows.
Due to Being Exposed to the Elements over the Years (UV Rays and Moisture)
The Upholstry has faded and Cracked............Which is not my Problem as I've got a Source for new Upholstry that matches the Original Color.

The Problem is the Metal Piece that the Upholstry is Formed around has Rusted and Rotted away over the years and is Very VERY Brittle and Falling apart in Chunks.

Not sure what some of you would suggest for this??? Try and Custom Fabricate a New Metal Piece and have a Professional Upholster Cover it???
Or is there a Company that Offers Replacement Pannels for such a thing????

I'm sure my poor ability to explain this has left most of you in confusion but I'll see what I can do in trying to get some Pics Available of this as well
 
I think that I know what you are referring to. Is this the sill that is directly under the rear side windows? If it is made of metal, and was covered with material, you can have a sheet metal place make a replacement for the metal part, and then have it upholstered. This is one of those cases where a picture is worth a thousand words..
 
Yes John that is the Piece that I am Refering too, Just what I'm concerned about is the Level of Deterioration the Metal Piece or whats left of it is in.
So I'm not sure if a Metal Fab. Shop Could Salvage much from it

As I said before I will try and get some Pics available to you here shortly
 
when you get it off the upholstery will tell you the shape it should be. all it was is a piece of tin cut to shape and the vinyl glued to it. if you don't rip the vinyl up it will give you the shape and one can bend the tin by had to fit the curve.
 
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