blue book

Is there a "blue book" or such for the value of todays pro cars? How would one know what value to place if one were buying or selling?
 
No book for these jewels Herb you just have to learn from experience as to value but alot of times more what you are willing to pay based on how bad you want one. Other pro car owners are a good place to ask for help.
 
The only way to establish value is by comparing like examples sold in last 3 years factoring models, conditions, and locations into establishing your baseline.

Please give me an example using your formula for one of my cars... 1963 Chrysler Pinner Hightop Ambulance. I am thinking of putting it up for sale, and I know my original purchase price, and the cost of improvements, but most people say that you won't get back what you have invested. Should I take it to eBay to establish the price, or do I reach into the thin air and pull one out? How about a 1962 Cotner Bevington Chevrolet Ambulance, or for that matter, a 1978 Superior Cadillac Transport Ambulance??:confused:
 
Can't establish value on such rare pieces without testing waters. You did however just prove that there is not and never can be a procar Blue Book. Equation mentioned is no different than what classic car auctioneers use to formulate pre-sale estimates. Then price realized becomes a portion of next equation and the circle continues.

What "most people say" about not getting back investment is two fold (and frankly irrelevant for sake of argument).

First, the term invest insinuates intelligent cautious money decision making ability. Many people spend money illogically on cars and/or improvements than become dumbfounded later. Spending is different than investing. Same as how most people confuse terms casket and coffin. Doesn't make it right, does it?

Secondly, purchase price and/or improvements/transport are not correlated to asking/selling price. They can be factored in, yes. Doesn't allow for overpaying in first place (refer back to first point), truly being in right place at right time and scoring a deal under market value, duration of time owned verses inflation (or vehicle trends), or what the market would bear - for starters. Again, research and educating oneself about a particular vehicle before buying is equally important. Same questions Herb has asked apply in both instances. :thumbsup:
 
Should I take it to eBay to establish the price, or do I reach into the thin air and pull one out?
I've used both successfully in conjunction with one another for things hard to get a market value on. If I have unusual or rare automobilia I want to sell, I make up a number I think it's worth and would be happy getting for it. I then put that number as the reserve on an auction and wait to see what happens. If the item goes through a few auctions unsold, I can use the highest bids as an indicator of estimated value. If bidding meets the reserve or goes over, the selling price is a new benchmark. I've only done this twice with professional cars, but both times my reserve was met, so I was happy to get better than what I thought they were worth. And there may be better ways, but this has always been pretty successful for me.

First, the term invest insinuates intelligent cautious money decision making ability. Many people spend money illogically on cars and/or improvements than become dumbfounded later. Spending is different than investing.

Got that right. "Investment" is one of those catch words that I think weaseled its way into the collector car market. Invest means you expect to make a profit. If you go to an auction or find a sale where it says "great investment", you're not likely to get one. I think very few people actually make money in those cases, because if it were that easy to make a profit on a publicized car sale, it would sell to the first person who sees it. They of course then know they can again make a profit from re-selling it. I think when a collector car does become an investment is when you're the lucky one to find an unpublicized car that you can get cheap enough to know you can sell for more. Perfect examples - I bought my Ford from Carl Woerner where it was listed on his site. It's probably still only worth what I paid for it. On the other hand, the '61 C/B Oldsmobile I found behind a funeral home and bought for $3000, I knew I could later sell for more. And I did... for $6500 on eBay a few years later :D
 
what a nice way to say it's not the cars fault you dumped so much money into it.

but I say again what some one bought because he was shopping at Berett Jackson and wanted to impress his pear group does not set a value. just a one time selling price.

two of the same type cars sold one on east cost and one on the west has nothing to do with what you pay for it in Kansas. it only establishes what some one else out there was willing to pay.

the value of these cars is simple math. it's what the seller wants divided by what your willing to pay. if what's in your wallet equals that, there is a deal struck. now post sales will establish the top and bottom price that people are will to pay and it will set the trend of what people are looking for. but with any thing in limited production once the big money boys get there toys you can't give one away, because the people willing to pay that price already have one. of the trendy cars that is. one may go for big bucks out of the blue. because someone just wants one. one way to establish a value is to place the car on e-bay with a good add then set a high reserve see how high the bidding goes. but as you review the bidders you will discover that in the end it's only two people placing bids not 100. run it again and it won't bring the money the first one did.

you want to invest in cars that you can make big bucks on, better be buying up chevy's
 
Is there a "blue book" or such for the value of todays pro cars? How would one know what value to place if one were buying or selling?

Back in the '60's, the Ambulance Manufacturer's Association had a pro-car "Blue Book". The 74-page book pictured here was issued in 1963, and covered 1954-1962 model years for Eureka, Hess & Eisenhardt, Meteor, A.J. Miller, M-M, Superior, Comet and C/B, Flxible, Memphis and ACC. Nice pictures, too!
 

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location,location,location

thats what you need to sell real estate,but that reflects what atilla says,write place write time,i have put up cars for sale 3-5 times to get my price,and 1 time to get way more than i expect,SUPPLY AND DEMAND,i bought a 1974 ambulance from ely nevada for $1224.00 and then sold it to a musium for 25,000.00 and only spent $2500 to fix it up,and i will never make that much on any car for the rest of my life,but i do work very hard about 15 hrs a day to research the values and probly sold more pro cars than most,but atilla has the best advice,lots of research and hard work and what has sold,but i have to disagree,every 6 months the market changes so i hope this helps,if you need more call any time,not much of a typer,BRIAN 917-499-9994:D:D:D:D
 
the question still remains today what is my 1972 C/B Seville landau combination worth it's got 70g on it and everything works, needs painted nice interior, fair trim, new rubber, p/s auto AC. standard engine tyranny combination all numbers match if you know what it will bring are we talking wholesale or retail. will you guarantee that price 10% plus or minus. now me I keep taking a bath on these things and would love to find a man that could market them for me at a fair price. been buy ruff stuff retail and selling clean stuff wholesale all my life. I would love to turn that around.
 
A lot has to do with the quality and number of pictures that are posted with the auction, along with the description of the vehicle. I have seen auctions where the seller refers to a minor problem, and then says it can be fixed easily and inexpensive. If that is the case, then why not fix it, and you don't have to mention it as a negative for the vehicle. The real reason is that it isn't easily repaired or the part is scarce, and costs a lot when you find one. I have seen many a description that I stop reading half way through because I know for the description that the car is a "pig".
Some of the best descriptions and pictures that I have seen for Professional Cars have been auctions by Bill Marcy. They are accurate, honest, and to the point, along with good pictures.
 
thanks for reply's. Maybe since their are pro car experts on this site, how about doing a combined effort on the Pro Car Estimated Value book? With a combined effort from people that have bought and sold, and keeps up with the trends from other auctions or something they have seen sold, could have a section on here that helps with a price or general estimate.
Of course there are always exception to the rules, and it changes by the minute, but I just think it might be a way to keep track of what the trends are on the price of todays market. If it was laid out like the Ambulance Mfg Assc, book, where its made up of the major coach builders, and years, and options, I would think it would be interesting and helpful. Of course it would be subject to ones interpretation of value or investment. Is this just a can of worms idea?
 
it would be more practical to sell them by the pound as the most sought after cars always seam to be the heaviest. but in reality it's condition and location.
a rough car cheap is no good to a man that can repair it if most of the cost is in transportation. cars get worth more to you the closer to home, those you get to look at first are worth more then those in pictures. if there were a couple million people buying and sell there would be a book. but with only a hand full of serious collectors out there and a few thousand owners there is not enough people to buy the books.

just to try to find information on the car you have can prove vary difficult. every now and then there are pictures popping of cars only made buy a manufacture for a few years. some the only one built. but me I see hearses going from 2 to 5, ambulances 3 to 8 in un restored drivable condition. not to mention paper work in order. not having that is a killer for the price of a car.
you could not put in the variables in a book. the most you could get was decent prices on restored or original cars. then it's who did the restoration and condition condition condition at the time of sale. you get to spend 25 G's on a car you better know the man your getting it from or look it over before you buy it. now me after 2 buy off e-bay I'm doing that before I fork over a grand.
 
Originally Posted by Attila Bethlenfalvy View Post
First, the term invest insinuates intelligent cautious money decision making ability. Many people spend money illogically on cars and/or improvements than become dumbfounded later. Spending is different than investing.


Sounds just like my wife!


The value of a car (or any other asset) is how much someone is willing to pay for it. The reasons they are willing to pay XX amount is irrelevant.
 
thanks for reply's. Maybe since their are pro car experts on this site, how about doing a combined effort on the Pro Car Estimated Value book? With a combined effort from people that have bought and sold, and keeps up with the trends from other auctions or something they have seen sold, could have a section on here that helps with a price or general estimate.
Of course there are always exception to the rules, and it changes by the minute, but I just think it might be a way to keep track of what the trends are on the price of todays market. If it was laid out like the Ambulance Mfg Assc, book, where its made up of the major coach builders, and years, and options, I would think it would be interesting and helpful. Of course it would be subject to ones interpretation of value or investment. Is this just a can of worms idea?
Pretty much, yes.

It would take tons of work to create such a list and keep it up to date. You need to list every coachbuilder, every chassis manufacturer, every year, every model, and every possible option (including some that were added later). With as many one-off models and options, that would be voluminous just to create the initial list. Then you'd have to research past sale prices, enter those, and research every future sale and add those in as well. Whew!

It would take a full-time staff to make and update this. And who then would pay for it all? The dealers buy the "blue books" or whatever they are called, but there are a lot of regular car dealers so this would be profitable for cars. For pro-cars? Not so much.

As mentioned, a professional car's value is how much the buyer wants to pay for it and how much the seller wants to get for it. When they agree, that's the value. Nobody ever makes a profit in this hobby. But if you enjoy the cars and the hobby, then nobody really loses, either! :cool:
 
A lot has to do with the quality and number of pictures that are posted with the auction, along with the description of the vehicle. I have seen auctions where the seller refers to a minor problem, and then says it can be fixed easily and inexpensive. If that is the case, then why not fix it, and you don't have to mention it as a negative for the vehicle. The real reason is that it isn't easily repaired or the part is scarce, and costs a lot when you find one. I have seen many a description that I stop reading half way through because I know for the description that the car is a "pig".
Some of the best descriptions and pictures that I have seen for Professional Cars have been auctions by Bill Marcy. They are accurate, honest, and to the point, along with good pictures.

Thank you Paul, I take that as a real compliment.
 
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