Limousines

M

Mark Novak

PCS Life Member
Just out of curiosity, are there any specific requirement for limousines in the club? I know factory built and coachbuilt ones are welcome. But what about newer partybus, superstretch, hot tub in the trunk type ones. Is there anything that prohibits those from being in the club, or is any limo ok?
 
More people will chime in here,but I think if your going to exhibit at the meets of this club your partybus limo will be relegated to the back row with the ghostbuster cars and not be judged, but the hot tub limo would be a hit at the micro-meet:D
 
I would not own such a thing. Someone asked me what are the specifics for limousines to be allowed in the club.
 
Can't find it right now but I am sure factory built or coachbuilt are the standard ones the club likes to see. me I love the ambulances, and I hope in no way I insulted you.
 
Yes, I know that is what the club prefers too see. However, this is all I found

1.3. DEFINITION OF A PROFESSIONAL CAR. A professional vehicle shall be defined as a funeral, livery, or
ambulance class vehicle having special coachwork executed on passenger-car styling. The definition may be expanded to
include horse-drawn vehicles and vehicles taken from station-wagon and light-truck styling, and the Board of Directors
shall issue specific guidelines from time to time which explain and delineate the vehicles so defined.

So with that, it looks like you could arrive in an eight wheel 42' long, hot tub in trunk vehicle or new conversion of a 1950's or 1970's car that was used for livery service. Members might not like it. But I see nothing from the above that states it can't be shown or judged.

And I am not offended since I said I would not own such a thing. But it would be nice to provide accurate info to someone that might be interested in the club.

It would also appear that a Cadillac Fleetwood 75 Executive Sedan that was in private, not livery use, would be excluded from the club based on the above bylaw, but I am sure that is not the case.
 
Mark,

You ask a good question here. When PCS was founded in 1976, the general idea was that the category of "limousine" would encompass the (then) typical factory limousine, such as the Cadillac Fleetwood 75. Other types were seen as well, including Armbruster's six and eight door limousines.

As time has gone on, nearly every type of automobile has been made into a limousine, usually by stretching it in the middle. The party buses and hot tub cars you mentioned have become more prevalent as well. Because very few, if any, of these types of vehicles have appeared at PCS meets, we haven't made any further clarifications regarding them. If someone brought, say, a 1995 DaBryan Lincoln super stretch limo and entered it into the judging, I would say that it would be judged because it meets the age and descriptive requirements. Same goes for a hot tub car. If there is any question of whether or not the car conforms to what PCS deems a "limousine," the chief judge can help settle any disputes, should any arise.

This is a prime example reflecting the benefit of our new judging system. The super stretch limo would be judged on it's own merits, rather than compete with, say, a 1959 Cadillac Fleetwood 75.

I doubt that we will see an abundance of party buses and super stretches at our meets, but who knows? It may be as interesting for us to see the "modern chauffeured transportation" as it would be for those chauffeurs to see a classic limousine.

As for a privately-owned and driven Fleetwood 75, I don't think we would have any issues allowing said car based on the bylaws. It can be interpreted that it is still a livery car, just a private, family livery.
 
I concur with Tony on his assessment of the Bylaw. As for some cars being relegated to the back of the lot, that has to do with another section of the Bylaws. I have highlighted the appropriate line within the Bylaw.

7.3. VEHICLE DISPLAY.
The Vice President shall publish from time to time, with the approval of the Board of Directors, lists of approved classes, body configuration criteria, and year-of-manufacture limits for vehicle display at Society events. The Board of Directors shall strive to protect the Society’s good name and may refuse admittance to any vehicle at Society-sponsored events. Bizarre decorations and vehicle contents, condition not reflecting well upon the automobile hobby, and inappropriate prominent lettering or slogans shall be cause for such refusal. Professional vehicles which have been converted into campers, regardless of the quality of the conversion, shall be deemed to have lost their historic value and shall not be judged at Society events, although they may participate if the body is original.
Click to expand...
 
I would say if you would use it in a funeral service it would be OK. With the all most none existence of 6 door cars in most rental fleets now days the j seat 100 inch are being used.
 
I used to work for a limo service. We had a funeral home contract, and used J-seat 9 passenger stretch limos for funerals. I never had a client that objected to the car. Ice water and sodas were stocked. After the funeral, I'd return the car, where it was stocked with liquor and it was ready for afternoon executive service and evening party service. There was no change to the car whatsoever. So it would be hard to exclude a lot of the "modern" limos just based on funeral/not funeral service.
 
Many of the limousines built in the '80s and '90s by such reputable firms as Accubuilt were configured as "24-Hour Cars" that were designed and engineered to do double duty thereby giving a funeral director or other operator/owner a vehicle that could be used for more than one purpose and allow them to use the vehicle to generate additional income. Vehicles built strictly as "party" cars should not be considered in the same class as those for funeral livery service.
 
Keith Snyder said:
Vehicles built strictly as "party" cars should not be considered in the same class as those for funeral livery service.
Click to expand...

I agree 100%.

Busses/shuttles - such an eight-door A/S wagon conversion - shouldn't be considered, either. Limousines, for PCS acceptance and judging purposes, should be cars primarily designed and built for personal or funeral service.

That is all.
 
Steve Loftin said:
I agree 100%.

Busses/shuttles - such an eight-door A/S wagon conversion - shouldn't be considered, either. Limousines, for PCS acceptance and judging purposes, should be cars primarily designed and built for personal or funeral service.

That is all.
Click to expand...

Based on this, then the early 1960's Chevrolet and Pontiac limo's that were built by Armbruster for the Milton Hershey school wouldn't be acceptable in your view.
 
Steve Loftin said:
I agree 100%.

Busses/shuttles - such an eight-door A/S wagon conversion - shouldn't be considered, either. Limousines, for PCS acceptance and judging purposes, should be cars primarily designed and built for personal or funeral service.

That is all.
Click to expand...

I believe that those early, multi-door Armbruster, Stageway, Armbruster-Stageway or other similar conversions were considered "airporters" or "ground transportation busses" at the time and, although they are now often referred to as "limousines", these initial multi-door vehicles were never called or even considered real limousines in the way in which we currently think of them for funeral service or funeral livery service. Remember the multi-door "airporters" or sight-seing busses built in the '30s by Miller, Henney and Meteor. These were not limousines as we now think of them -- they also had roof racks for luggage.
It wasn't until the early '70s that such vehicles were aimed at funeral service and then, they were based on up-scale or luxury car chassis and these were introduced to the profession by Armbrtuster-Stageway. Airporters and the like were usually based on stretched Chevrolet, Pontiac or Ford platforms - often station wagon based. The only exception to this that I am aware of, and perhaps the earliest, was a six-door, three rows of bench seats, Ford based limousine produced by Siebert that was promoted through the funeral trade press as a combination funeral limousine and an ambulance that was introduced in 1937 and only produced briefly (probably because of lack of buyer interest). Now, if one of these showed up at a PCS judging meet, it would be a valid entry....and very interesting as well. My two cents worth on the subject anyway.
 
While it appears that everyone has different views on the subject, must be used in funeral services, cannot be multi-door based on a cheap chassis, if it was not actually used in livery service but usually was the type that would be considered for that then it's ok, can't have J-seats, TV's, or bars, etc., I see nothing in the bylaws that prohibits any of those.

If those things are not acceptable, then maybe someone needs to look into updating the bylaws with those requirements. But as it currently stands, you can show up with a 1957 Chevy converted in 2005 into an 8 wheel, 42' foot long, hot tub in trunk, 8 door limo with bar, J-seats, TV, and dance floor, and there is nothing to prevent it from being shown, judged, and winning awards.

I thought there would be some sort of requirements prohibiting that type of vehicle, but apparently there are not.

A few years ago, someone refused to count a 1950's car stretched into a superstretch limo in the 1990's, in the official car count for a meet. While this post was not in regards to that, it appears that they had absolutely no right to do that.
 
Stageway was a bus builder and these 8 or 6 door cars you could get them with out the left had center doors were considered buses when they were sold. it would be silly to start calling them limos now. if some one were to show up wit one and we have had one at a meet it was judged and stood on it's own. as for the current judging rules. at every meet I have been at there is always some off the wall thing show up. and each is dealt with by the field judge as they feel necessary.

and yes the 4 door stage ways built for Hershey were built as school buses and that's what they were used for.

as I recall our description of a pro car states as used in livery or funeral service.
 
correct me if Im wrong, but I always was told a LIVERY vehicle was one that was available for rent or for hire. The so called party limos you reference would fit that definition.
 
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