Maybe you can help

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Mike Stevens

PCS Member
Looking for history. I am wanting to find out more about my 1961 Miller-Meteor limo style combination coach. The car was last sold in north central Pennsylvania in October of 1973. It has always been painted black as far as we can tell. The Cadillac tag says black and the MM tag says black. It has the original dark charcoal gray and white interior. The Cadillac AM radio is in the dash and it has the Cadillac power antenna on the right front fender close to the windshield and right front door. There is a division window and cabinet inside. As the roof has never been drilled for Ful-view or any other lights I am thinking this coach did mostly funeral work. The rear compartment has light gray sliding curtains not drapes. The car had 42,000 miles on it when it came to us in 1973. It may have been 44,000 but 1973 was a long time ago. At that time we did not think about getting the up to the minute history, even if it had been availible. I have had no luck in tracking down the seller. All I know is he had 3 other later model hearses for sale at the same time. Since this coach was bought so close to the New York/Pennsylvania border I am wondering if it could possibly be a New York car instead of a Pennsylvania car? Or maybe it is not originally from either state. I am thinking someone at a funeral home may remember having a black 61 MM limo style many years ago and sold it to a dealer in Pennsylvania. Your thoughts and comments are welcome.
You can PM me or answer in this forum. I can supply pictures if they are needed.
Thank you,
Mike
 
Car History

Mike,

Have you checked with the states of NY & PA to see if they can do a title search? Northland Chapter VP, Gene Rafferty, has had good luck obtaining information about his cars from various states here in the Midwest. Some states keep records much longer than others. With PA being such a large state, I would doubt they keep their records this long, but it's worth the inquiry.

You might also try contacting the PA Funeral Directors Association. They might permit you to submit an ad (and possibly even a photo) for publication in their newsletter, seeking information about your car. Again, after this many years, it's a long shot, but all it takes is that one person who "knows somebody who knows somebody" who knows the answers to your questions.

And when you talk to the PA Funeral Directors Association, ask them if there is a library that contains issues of funeral trade publications from your car's era. Back then, many trade journals printed information and photos of new car deliveries. The magazine collection at the University of Minnesota has provided me with a wealth of information, including photos of two new hearse deliveries to our funeral home (1959 Eureka Cadillac 3-way and 1965 S&S Cadillac 3-way.)

Good luck!
 
a place to start

Again, all it takes is an idea from somone who has 'been there'. I will be trying to contact the associations in the respective states and the Motor Vehicle Departments too.
Thanks,
Mike
 
One of the issues that I have run into with trying to get information about previous owners from the states, is that they consider there information to be privileged, and are very hesitant to release it unless there is a reason for you to have it. I purchased a car from Alaska, and I have requested the information from the Alaska Division of Motor Vehicles. They sent me a form that they require me to fill out, and to accompany that form with a copy of my title showing the car vehicle identification number. Even applying for the production record for my 1963 Chrysler requires that I supply the Certificate of Title or Registration showing me as the owner. Some state records are considered public, however, motor vehicle records for the most part are not considered public records.
 
All motor vehicle records are protected by the Federal Driver’s Privacy and Protection Act of 1994. You have to have a purpose for requesting the information. I have received the information by marking the record owner box on the form and sending them a copy of the title with my name on it. I have done this for cars from Texas, Oklahoma, South Dakota and Minnesota.
 
paperwork found

While looking through the 'users' copy of the 61 Cadillac shop manual I found a copy of the first Ohio title on my coach. Listed as the previous owner was Richard P Trencansky R.D. 1 Warren Center, Pa.
The title is dated 10/11/74. We have no idea how long it took to get paperwork back then. I am guessing that this coach could have been sold anywhere from a couple days to a few weeks before Ohio issued a title.
Does anyone remember a dealer by this name in the Warren, Pa area? Pop said this guy had 3 other coaches for sale when he bought this one.
My next tracking attempt will be to contact the Pa funeral directors association and the Pa department of motor vehicles.
Mike
 
Thanks for the referral Attila! (BTW, nice talking to you yesterday.) Though, sadly, I am just starting this project. I would agree with the above suggestions to do title searches in the surrounding states. I myself can trace my 1961 M+M Landau Endloader from myself, to Mike Armentrout of Belle Center Ohio, to another PCS member (Whose name escapes me at the moment, but recently sold a 1986 Suburban Hearse to Alex Lohmann of our club). After that, I have the origional warranty papers signed to a lady in Chicago. More on that if I can find the papers...
 
finding history

Hooray, hooray, its a very good day! The seller of my coach just called with some info from 1974. He was very helpful with what info he could remember. The down side is he got rid of most of his records about 10 years ago. So now he operates on memory. He did tell me my coach was bought from S&S Sales and Service in Williamsport, Pa. That is where he bought all his cars. The S&S as he remembers was Spitler and Spitler. They did light and special equipment fittings for ambulances and hearses. He says one brother operates (or did) a funeral home in Williamsport. So now I have some info that heads me in a direction that may be of help to get the history of my coach from MM to the first owners.
I guess the word of caution here is start early in trying to find the history of your coach if you want or need it.
Thanks for the tips and suggestions along the way here.
Mike
61 M-M
 
contact info sent

Thanks for the link to Spitler.
A couple passes through Google and I had more contact info. Imagine my surprise when I saw Spitler is still in the procar and ambulance business. I have written a letter to the procar division. Now we will wait and see what turns up from thier end.
The bigger surprise was that after all this time the seller from 1974 contacted me. I contacted him a few months ago, with Pauls help. He said they just got long distance service on thier phone was what took so long. After talking for a few minutes he was up to speed on what I was looking for. He even remembered my father in law from thier visit when he sold the coach.
I will let you all know how this turns out, or if it turns out. Time is what it will take for now.
Mike
 
working from memory

Paul,
What you did was recognize the name of the guy that sold the 61 MM to my father in law. You somehow knew he was now in Johnson City, NY. When he called he said he was not ignoring my request for help or info. He was waiting to get long distance calling in his area. He seemed like a friendly person. He was certainly free with info. Since he did away with his records about 10 years ago he is working from memory. But the business he bought coaches from is still in the procar business.
I am now waiting to see if I get any response form them.
Mike
 
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