Friends of the Professional Car Society - Official Website of the Professional Car Society, Inc.Friends of the Professional Car Society - Official Website of the Professional Car Society, Inc.



Go Back   Friends of the Professional Car Society - Official Website of the Professional Car Society, Inc. > Professional Car Discussion > Emergency lighting and Sirens

Emergency lighting and Sirens For discussion of emergency lighting and sirens as they are associated with Professional Cars. Posting in this forum is limited to PCS Members and / or Site Supporters. We encourage all website users to become members of the Professional Car Society and / or become Site Supporter.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-22-2015, 06:08 PM
Nicholas Studer Nicholas Studer is offline
PCS Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: San Antonio TX 72812
Posts: 356
Thanks: 256
Thanked 877 Times in 223 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Question RCFD 1963 Pinner-Chrysler Siren

This ambulance has been full of mysteries to unravel - with this vehicle in service as the village's front-line ambulance for 25 years. When Paul Steinberg purchased the ambulance from the previous owner (apparently the former fire chief's son) - it had a Federal Signal Interceptor Siren controller under the dash as well as a FS SA24 electronic speaker under the hood. He replaced it with a Model 28 siren and that it how it came to me.

I've very much enjoyed talking with Jack Pinner recently, and he tells me the most common siren Fire Dept's wanted at that time was the Q1B - and he seemed to recall that being the siren for this one as well. He stated he knew for sure it was a FS product with a brake at least - and indeed the custom switch panel has a button for a siren brake.

Photos below of the siren compartment. That shelf is definitely original to the car. The SA24 speaker had actually been drilled with extra holes to fit on the original welded shelf in the bottom of the grille area. The welded shelf appears to most directly correlates to a four-hole mounting base with holes in the middle for the cables. That would correspond to a Q1B 4-hole base surely from the photos I've seen. http://www.oldfirestuff.com/FullyRes...ngineSiren.htm

What Paul and I have been most suspicious of is the available space - and while I'd love for it to have been a "Q" - both he and I are concerned about fit. http://www.professionalcarsociety.or...ad.php?t=11624 shows one installation. The Model 28 (7" diameter siren) currently in there is on a 2-hole pedestal mount, very close to the front of the grille - and there's maybe 2.75" space between it and the radiator. Because of the inward sloping of the grille - there's between 9.5-10" of space between the grille and radiator. FS indicates on their website that the Q2B is a 10" diameter siren. I can't find dimensions on the Q1B but would presume they are close? Anyone have one they can take measurements of?

The C4B is the other option at 9" diameter - it doesn't make me as nervous as to fit overall. However, these usually had the same two-hole pedestal base as the Model 28 - and thus wouldn't fit in the same spot the 28 is. I understand from Joe Dorgan there is a 4-hole base for the C4B but I haven't seen one yet and can't find a photo. The C5 had a four-hole base, but don't know if it's the same.

It's certainly a pricey mistake if I'm wrong either way. Anyone got any thoughts?
Attached Images
  
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-22-2015, 06:57 PM
Bruce Biancalana Bruce Biancalana is offline
PCS Life Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Belvidere IL 61008
Posts: 359
Thanks: 411
Thanked 1,167 Times in 218 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Looks like a Q foot print to me
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Bruce Biancalana For This Useful Post:
James Fischer (03-22-2015), Nicholas Studer (03-23-2015)
  #3  
Old 03-22-2015, 11:45 PM
John ED Renstrom's Avatar
John ED Renstrom John ED Renstrom is offline
PCS Elected Director 2016 - 2018
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hot Springs SD 57747
Posts: 10,966
Thanks: 3,870
Thanked 14,208 Times in 5,977 Posts
Groans: 2
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Default

my guess is it's a plate from ferno drilled for multiple sirens. the Q were all the same size the under hood one would be missing the grill and painted. several used the 4 hole mount
__________________
drop in for coffee anytime
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to John ED Renstrom For This Useful Post:
Nicholas Studer (03-23-2015)
  #4  
Old 03-22-2015, 11:53 PM
Paul Steinberg Paul Steinberg is offline
PCS Past President / Senior Website Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Woodstock CT 06281
Posts: 6,203
Thanks: 6,436
Thanked 11,485 Times in 3,749 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 9 Times in 9 Posts
Default

I have had that siren out on more than one occasion, and I can say with certainty that a Q will not fit in the space. I have had a double tone, and the model 28 in that location. A C4 siren will probably fit, but you already have a good siren under the hood. If you want more noise, then put a Q on the roof.
__________________
"When a man opens a door for his wife, it's either a new car or a new wife."
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Paul Steinberg For This Useful Post:
Nicholas Studer (03-23-2015), Skip Goulet (10-22-2015)
  #5  
Old 03-23-2015, 08:57 PM
Nicholas Studer Nicholas Studer is offline
PCS Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: San Antonio TX 72812
Posts: 356
Thanks: 256
Thanked 877 Times in 223 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Ed - I'd agree that it surely could be a "universal" plate of some kind from FS. Do you have any other ideas on what other FS sirens might fit and have a brake?

Paul - As someone who only had electronic sirens when I did this for a living - the Model 28 is more than enough. I'm just chasing my tail as usual trying to figure out old mysteries of whether the chicken or egg came first...

My measurements seem to indicate a Q1b won't fit - and a C4b won't fit unless I can find a four-hole bracket or similar that would center it in the middle of the shelf. Just never seen one - only heard it described as existing. Anyone got a photo?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-23-2015, 09:33 PM
Paul Steinberg Paul Steinberg is offline
PCS Past President / Senior Website Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Woodstock CT 06281
Posts: 6,203
Thanks: 6,436
Thanked 11,485 Times in 3,749 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 9 Times in 9 Posts
Default

That "shelf" was just a steel plate that was installed by Pinner Coach. It is welded to the core support, and the center grille support. I had always thought that someday, I was going to remove it, and put it on the passenger side of the car, and install the power steering cooler, that I believe belongs in the car. I can't say with any certainty, that it was removed when the conversion was done, however, it is part of the heavy duty / performance / police package. After 50+ years, it is difficult to know exactly what is correct, and what has been changed.
__________________
"When a man opens a door for his wife, it's either a new car or a new wife."
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Paul Steinberg For This Useful Post:
Nicholas Studer (05-02-2015), Steve Loftin (03-23-2015)
  #7  
Old 03-30-2015, 04:33 PM
Kevin O'Connell Kevin O'Connell is offline
PCS Life Member / PCS So Cal Chapter President
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Santa Fe Springs CA 90670
Posts: 222
Thanks: 452
Thanked 672 Times in 173 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

The mounting pattern in the existing plate is definitely for a Class W, 60, 70 or C siren with a four bolt base. It will also accept a Q1 base as the cable doesn't have to be routed through the base. It seems odd that this plate would be used as (A) a Q won't fit and (B)the choices for underhood sirens that WILL fit (28, 76,C4) all use the same mount that Paul installed. Go figure.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Kevin O'Connell For This Useful Post:
Skip Goulet (10-22-2015)
  #8  
Old 03-30-2015, 04:38 PM
Paul Steinberg Paul Steinberg is offline
PCS Past President / Senior Website Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Woodstock CT 06281
Posts: 6,203
Thanks: 6,436
Thanked 11,485 Times in 3,749 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 9 Times in 9 Posts
Default

Kevin...

Having owned this car, I can say that the plate that was welded onto the core support was drilled for many options, and it was probably done prior to the plate being welded in. If I had to guess, I would bet that they had these plates already drilled, and just put them onto the car, knowing that not all options were even a possibility.
__________________
"When a man opens a door for his wife, it's either a new car or a new wife."
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-05-2015, 11:39 PM
Nicholas Studer Nicholas Studer is offline
PCS Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: San Antonio TX 72812
Posts: 356
Thanks: 256
Thanked 877 Times in 223 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Well - here's a photo of the siren compartment with the 28 out (It was a fairly simple task to remove the grille for access)

As you can see in the second photo - the Q grille "fits" within the allotted space but would not be centered on the base. So, sadly not a Q1B like Jack thought it might have been. I wonder if the other Chrysler's they made (I know of at least 4 others) had one instead. Anyone have a contrary opinion to my assessment?

Additionally, unless I'm missing something, the 4 hole base I borrowed could not fit on the two bolts coming up from the two support arms. Those are angled outboard a bit. I suppose they could be bent somehow to be straighter - however it's minor evidence that a four-hole mount was not used...

Further even more odd - is that despite the pictured pre-drilled holes, there's an extra hole drilled into the shelf that I overlooked despite obviously being there. It is necessary for the 2-hole mounting pedestal to secure in place. You can see it in the first photo on the right side of the base where the bolt has already been removed. The question is - was this done by Pinner or by the Rescue Squad? It's possible it was put in later for the SA24 electronic siren speaker installed in the 1970s - I need to check out how that went in. However, I find it rather odd that it'd perfectly match up with a 2-hole mechanical siren pedestal base.

If we choose to believe the 2-hole pedestal is the original configuration - it looks like there's an extra 1/2" space to the grille whereby a C4B maybe could fit. However, a Model 76 could surely do so with the same dimensions as the Model 28. Both have brakes like Jack insists was originally spec'd...

The hunt's half the fun.
Attached Images
  
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-06-2015, 12:25 AM
John ED Renstrom's Avatar
John ED Renstrom John ED Renstrom is offline
PCS Elected Director 2016 - 2018
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hot Springs SD 57747
Posts: 10,966
Thanks: 3,870
Thanked 14,208 Times in 5,977 Posts
Groans: 2
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Default

fit and being able to run it are two different thing looks to me like it would rub on the radiator. B&M would drop right in. but what if you turn things around
__________________
drop in for coffee anytime
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to John ED Renstrom For This Useful Post:
Skip Goulet (10-22-2015)
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1963 Chrysler-Pinner Ambulance takes a southern vacation Nicholas Studer General Discussion Forum 4 11-30-2014 10:45 PM
1963 Chrysler New Yorker six door Jacob M. Fournier Craigslist Listings Discussions Forum 1 09-06-2012 10:50 PM
A Winner in the Pinner Ron Devies General Discussion Forum 20 05-19-2011 10:13 PM
Pinner Coach Pic Daniel Scully General Discussion Forum 4 09-07-2009 11:58 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2009 - 2018 Friends of the Professional Car Society