1957 Ford F-100 ambulance

Well...what can I say? I'm glad it was saved, but (in my opinion) it would have been (MUCH) better to return it to it's original "in-service" look ie; <without> the wide whitewalls, magnetic dash light, radio dispatched and other (not what it had) graphics. MM
 
And you're welcome ....

If anyone is curious where this ambulance ended up..

'57 Ford ambulance

I'll actually be there in a few months, so I'll get to see it in person.

This Coach is on display here full-time and you are welcome to come see it.

It's always easy to take a critical stance but, I think some of these folks,who endorsed Mike M's comment, are forgetting when you display in a Museum you not only have to Commemorate the Past but, find a way to seek to 'please the masses' as well. Most of patron's here only recall the 'typical' ambulance seen in B&W Movies and, on the streets, in their memories. A PLAIN VANILLA coach with PALCO's "Scotia Fire Dept." name on the door didn't quite cut the mustard. It had no 'Eyes' and I had to brighten-it-up. This isn't the Lee Harvey Oswald Ford or the Kennedy Hearse you know? :) The graphics are period correct and the phone number IS Scotia F.D.'s in 1957!! The Fireball style magnetic light was correct for use in this time period (Federal Sign & Signal renamed their Corp. in 1956 and offered the FB-1 shortly thereafter), Police cars & Ambulances were indeed Radio Dispatched (even Dragnet's 1950 Mainline Ford was radio equipped as "1-K-80") and as far as 'whitewalls'... Whose to say What It Could Have Been? It's all about personal preference (in fact, this coach got whitewalls later in it's life).
In any event, just a reminder; as posted and passed-on to Paul S., ANY active PCS member (with ID) is welcome here at my classic car Museum and get's free admission so, def. plan a trip. We can verify you on this website. p.s. I broke my fibula right before the Daytona PCS Meet but, will look forward to meeting most of you some day in the future. Happy New Year!
 

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Comes under the heading of your car do what you want with it. Did anyone ever figure out who converted it? as we know superior did not build on a truck chassis
 
Actually, Superior Coach used a lot of Ford truck chassis in their school bus division in those years. Those Superior oval lights(not S&M) were ONLY used on school buses. Could it be that this rig was built by their school bus division??
 
Kurt:

That was my "speculation" too because they were plastic and I believe a (slightly) different shape...... just to be their own. (*) Our 1956 Superior-Pontiac Ambulance although it was <less> the lights when we got it, a pair of S&M Ovals bucket cans with (glass lenses) and retainer rings fit perfectly in the factory tunnels. I did discuss this possibility in a PM with the current owner a few days ago.

Did Joe Dorgan ever get straight with your order? MM
 
Mike,
I don't believe Superior ever used the oval glass S&M lenses on anything after 1956. I owned that '56 Superior Super Rescuer briefly and searched high and low for the oval glass lenses, finally finding all I needed. In my searching, I was able to dispel the rumor that Superior had used the same lenses on their buses. Superior started using the somewhat larger face-screwed plastic lenses, that are clearly identified as "Superior Coach" on the lens, in 1957 on their school buses..... many of which I have found to be built on Ford chassis.

To answer your last question.... No. I am still waiting for the last piece of my 2-piece order from Joe Dorgan. Again, these were both parts that he claimed to have in-stock over 13 months ago. They were also paid for 13 months ago.
 
sill it is not a superior product lights or not. so who built it? as S&M was not a superior company they did not remain in business to only supply lights to superior pontiac's or busses. anyone could have used them. but the big guys kind of stayed out of each others trademarks. so one can probably pass on them.
 
Ed,
The large, oval, plastic lenses used on this ambulance and the late '50s/early '60s Superior school busses ARE NOT S&M lenses. These oval plastic lenses are considerably larger than the oval glass S&M lenses and are mounted with screws running through the lens. The glass S&M lenses used a retainer ring. I would still say that there is a very good chance that this rig was built, at least in part, by Superior's school bus division.
 
The quarter windows on this rig also have the same look as the rear side(quarter) windows used on many late '50s school buses. This is just an example.
 

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OK that's a guess. find any proof that superiors school buss division built any ambulances using their bus lights or not. we are guessing that are the superior buss light. maybe Kerry can look and report we know this rig was sold threw a superior dealer. or at least has there dealer sticker attached to it and the thought was that it that it was bought new from them by someone to young to know for sure. new or late model used would be the same. either would account for the dealer sticker. we know Seabert built on these type of rigs along with a number of smaller players in Texas that converted anything that moved. as did Armbruster and co. as did Pinner. then there were a couple of people out on the east cost that did custom orders also. PL customs was just starting. same on the west coast. stoner was getting going about here. the lights and housing were available from superior as replacements so coming up with them was not that difficult nor was salvaging them from a yard like Pinner did there tops. using other manufactures taillights building your own housings for top was the norm for all the players in this age.

what we can tell from looking at it is it's not a back yard conversion. but built by some one that had the ability to do extensive body work. Superior would certainly have that ability but the buss assembly line could not produce one ambulance along with busses. unless that had a line building small bussed on this chassis. if they did where are they and why did they only build one ambulance?

these were the days of custom orders and there are a lot of of one of things produced by customer design as the only one like that built. Gorge has the only Henny with rear tunnel lights built that year. but Henny built more than one ambulance that year. as no one in the group can say they ever saw one other superior built ford panel ambulance of any year, it cast doubt on any being built by them. if it had of been, it would have been well labeled. they were proud of there stuff.

but now that the we know were the truck is it possible that it can be visited and studied and may be we can figure out who built it. it could have been superior but if you can't prove it that all we know is we think the top lights are superior buss lights. simply reading of them will disclose that. and thats is step one. finding proof that they did build any is step two. comparing the construction with other known rigs out there as you work towards what you believe it to be is step 3. then accepting that's it not one or the other is step 4. I ruled out a number of manufactures Ideig my Poncho. it took a trip out to see Bill's in BC to finally except it was not a Barnett. and that is what you do on these type of rigs. you prove it's not on your way to proving what it is. you don't do it by snap decisions but by sorting and asking. you keep it in the back of your mind all the time traveling around. no one built just one of these. it's constructed to well for that. but like my 53 there maybe only know a very few of them out there.
 
Conjecture...

I guess one could start by reading all the research I did and posted on my website (I'm not sure if I am allowed to name it). I did my best to list this odd-duck as honestly as possible until I could finish my research. Like most of you, I have a long standing rep I don't want blemished by false conjecture. I am completely consumed with my business but, in the interim I named it appropriately "Superior Optioned".

Just a quick post before I go back to work : I think some of you are forgetting what client this was built for. PALCO (Pacific Lumber Co.)was one of the wealthiest, most successful businesses in the USA in 1957. They could probably get most anything done they wanted to and had a reputation for not backing down or taking 'no' as an answer. For somebody to come on this site and try to dissect this build in a negative tone w/o having ALL the facts- is a bit.... 'disappointing'. I've been following the threads here about this Coach for months and would only ask: Maybe we could just try to analyze it in a more positive viewpoint until all the statistic's are in. Especially, since (it appears) no one posting a thread worked at the factory in MO. or OH in 1957 nor has anybody produced any ghosts to testify :)
They ARE Superior stamped lights as Kurt (thanks) pointed out '+' months ago.
The coach IS the same coach delivered in 1957 (less my 'cosmetics',sorry MMc :eek:), the body has never been changed or altered. It has TWO rear doors not the Single door Seibert morphed into by 1957 production. Most of the 'other' coachbuilders mentioned were using other makers brands to build-on, Superior DID offer several Ambulances on a Ford Truck chassis in later years and when I have time, I will 'attempt' to load pix of 5-6 of those Superior factory brochures and ads displaying same. The tail lights/e.flashers were moved to the roof because the in-use, open doors would cover them (answ. early thread)! No one in their right mind would order a Cadillac to cover 1000's of acres of logging roads or meet 'The Crummies' in the middle of the Forest. This was ordered from the closest San Francisco Pro Car Dealer, most likely out of dire need.

Let's not forget Superior built the experimental "Cargo Cruiser" Wagon on a Pontiac chassis, just 2 years later in 1969 (had to be another one-off!!!, at least I hope it was) :eek: ! The dealer Water Slide (period correct) w/ phone no. & address correct- DECAL on the dashboard IS/was a Superior dealer named by Superior Coach in their National ads (see ad on my website), it was NOT a Used Car Lot selling a Used Unit- this coach was delivered NEW this way, ALL accounts by those living (and those relatives close to those who are not) Swear it was ordered and built by Superior Coach, I cannot exactly match the side-glass-lights to any other Coach Builder (yes, it WAS mirrored in Gold Leaf, which has dissipated), it has all the appearances of being a 'one-off build' with a V8 motor not ever used or listed in 1957 in the Standard Ford Catalog yet, the VIN w/matching Title and original Ford Factory VIN Plate say it was married to this Coach since new, the Cabin Top is totally custom made of Fiberglas (sides) & metal (everyone here knows Superior was One of the First to endorse the use of Fiberglas- see the old mag ads) ....and the list keeps going. Like I stated, I have spent 100's of hours researching this Coach so, let's see what I turn up before we nail it to the cross. PEACE
 
no one is trying to nail it to any cross only ID it. thanks for the info on the lights. we only got educated guesses on them. glad to know Kert was correct. superior did use some distinctive stamping on their interiors and were very good at labeling. which this one seams to be lacking. but your titling for it is a prober as it can be for the time. one has to remember that all of these manufactures would farm out to another plant to do things they either were to busy for or not able to do. almost all the hardware inside could be bought from the wholesale supply house catalogs but if superier did it in house they would have used their supplies on hand. one should be able to match it up. but I'll be honest with you it looks way to nice for anything superior cranked out. they were not the best of manufactures when it came to quality control. but preferred to cover ugly up with wide trim. the trim the stops so the doors opened flat was a trick armbruster used. one of the nice things that the research does it turn up a lot of strange manufactures no one has heard off before. I was checking pictures tonight to see what was out there and found a add for Mee corp. they built ambulances along with there other stuff. but the only fords built by superior I found were on Van chassis. posting any thing you have here is OK we would like to see them. no one here is in any way trying to do anything more then help you ID this rig. inventing a story is good for the public viewing but no way help full to get it nailed down exact. facts and construction methods are the way it done. clear pictures not the printed dealer fliers with the airbrushed images. now me if I needed a plant ambulance because the government made me get one I would do like almost everyone else did and convert one off the lot. we all have a number of them like that in our pictures collection. strange that it has a glass top. why would you cut off the steel top and put on a glass one that was shaped just like the factory one? I'm not a big ford fan but from what I saw checking around tonight they had two different roof lines in 57 one like this one and the other a flat one. is it glass from the drip rail up? did ford have a glass top offered in 57 on their panel?

but please share with us your research on this so we don't have to cover the same ground. there are still a few people around that worked back then. but they are getting up there in age . none of my crash books go back that far. so there no help. but one of the ford sites should let you know if they had a glass top offered.

post the link for your web site
 
if superior built it it would have a tag like this on the firewall. or the drivers door or jam. at least you should be able to see the 4 holes if someone removed the tag.
 

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Kerry, I don't think anyone is trying to approach this from a negative point of view. We are just presenting known facts.

Tom McPherson did extensive research on Superior for his book on the coachbuilder. There isn't any mention of Superior having built any ambulances from panel vans during this era. Does that mean there were none ever built? No - as Steve Loftin says, "you learn something new every day". No matter how much we know, something else can pop up. But you'd think there would have been some evidence if there were any Superior vans, and so far, there doesn't seem to be any.

Your statement that the lumber company could have gotten anything they wanted - well, sure they could have. And if they had wanted, they could have gotten a full-length hightop Superior Cadillac ambulance. They chose a van conversion for a reason - low price (companies don't get rich by spending more than they need to), so it seems unlikely they would commission something so unusual. There were a lot of small conversion companies out there at the time, any of which could have done this.

Lights are lights, they can be bought, and we've seen some ambulances with unusual lights, though the lights were not manufactured, they were bought from a light manufacturer.

Clearly, the ambulance was bought from a Superior dealer - but we also know that many dealerships sold more than one non-competitive line (a high priced line and a low priced line). That dealer decal does not define it as having been a Superior product.

We're not being negative, but there needs to be more information to say that it is definitely something nobody has ever seen or heard of before.
 
It's just not very likely that another manufacturer would have had access to Superior's tunnel lights that clearly say "Superior Coach Corp."(molded into the plastic lenses). This is a 1957 model ambulance and Superior just began using these very tunnel lights/lenses in 1957 on their school buses.(NO, they were not used by anyone prior to then.)

Kerry, I believe that you may have to take a close-up photo of one of the lenses in order to get some people to see that these were truely unique to Superior. How much research did Tom McPherson do on the Superior School Bus Division??
 
It's just not very likely that another manufacturer would have had access to Superior's tunnel lights that clearly say "Superior Coach Corp."(molded into the plastic lenses). This is a 1957 model ambulance and Superior just began using these very tunnel lights/lenses in 1957 on their school buses.(NO, they were not used by anyone prior to then.)

Kerry, I believe that you may have to take a close-up photo of one of the lenses in order to get some people to see that these were truly unique to Superior. How much research did Tom McPherson do on the Superior School Bus Division??

we believe the man when he said they were marked as you say. anyone could have ordered a replacement light from the bus division at any time. be nice to see if the whole housing was used or just the lens. the trick was to put in the lense with a tab or two and mount the bulb behind it on a tin strap with a foil reflector behind the bulb. when using a different lens for the markers. lenses are cheap, assemblies are not.

from reading the website seeing the direction that Kerry went with his research and the facts that he uncovered it's clear that the truck was sold new from that dealership. served only that company and has different bumpers. saying that is was a special order is true.
I'm with Steve on the large corporation being to cheap to have done what the guess is. I have at least 3 different home brew rigs from lumber co in my collection one on a 59 ford panel.

the bus plant was set up for larger vehicles it would have been to difficult for them to have run a smaller unit thru with equipment set up for larger ones. being built in one of the other plants set up for rig that size is more practical. the pontiac plans is more likely than the lima one as they worked with different size rigs.

but we are dismissing the built in back of the dealership as the most likely source of this truck. never underestimate one man in a garage full of tools.
the fact that the quater glass is out of a late 40s Miller sure leanes me that way. the no superior script inside or out adds to it. I don't have enough experience with the hardware used by superior in the mid 50's. there are just not enough interior shots of the cars around. and I have never sat in one. but it all would be available through the dealership. the glass roof which I'm guessing is over the drivers part is a mystery we may never solve. it may have been something they were experimenting with for a smaller bus I don't recall any of the large ones with glass headers front or rear. but having them cast for the lights leans away from the body shop conversion. unless it was something a larger dealer with connections could have stumbled across that superior was experimenting with and then snagged one. it then could have been modified it to fit the roof of the ford.

that scenario fits the known facts also. I do not believe that superior would have used the Miller glass. they had there own etching pattern in the 50s but a body shop with a old junk miller out back could easily chop it out of one car and put it in that flat panel of the truck. that gold leaf pattern looks sharp and that would account for the same interior trim around the window also. the key is not to lock yourself in and try to weave a pattern that fits only that. if Seabert was building glass rear doors back then, they could have just as easily built a glass roof. but still hard to get around that Miller glass.

none of this takes anything away from the truck in the least. a one off is a one off. the big name attached to it doesn't make it any higher on the stick then a quality job done by the dealership. all the big players in the trade worked the floor in some obscure place or position to learn the trade before launching there careers in the business. the craftsmanship on what I see in this truck is top notch and in my opinion way better then anything superior turned out. so no one is knocking the rig or the research that Kerry has put in to finding out who built it. just a different set of eyes and a counter scenario no one is insisting that he pay any attention to us.
 

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By golly, I think Ed got it. Yes, that's exactly what that rear window is, it's a window out of a '47 Miller ambulance. See the picture below, they do match.

I suspect Ed's right, that it was built in the dealer shop - they likely had an old Miller in the dealership and pulled the windows and used them as the rear windows on the van. That explains the etching and the unusual shape.

Which now does confirm one thing - it would not have been built "new" by Superior Coach in 1957 using windows from a 1947 Miller Coach.

You DO learn something new every day!
 

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