Considered a procar?

all most any type of cars are welcome at one of our shows without the halloween attachments. but weater or not it is judged is what the debate is.
and it's a frindly one. you have to draw the line some were with in and out. we don't want this waffling at each meet on what is or is not. airstream built a Hearse is it a pro car. no but we would welcome seeing one at any meet. what is the difference in this 15 passanged car then a 15 passanger van? the by laws state light truck. so there in?

John ED Renstrom said:

it's quite a story on a American Quality Company. the top brass from Cb yes that's Mr C and Mr B wanted to start doing on the olds toronado chassis but Wayne did not want the competition with there Cadillacs in a already closed market. so Mr C and Mr.B sold there interesting Cb and stated the AQC. built some 150 + units but only the airport limos. never quite got to the Hearses and ambulances they wanted to for what ever reason before the co folded.
now are these and the sageway buses pro cars. not really they were never used in livery service not marketed to that industry at all. there just overgrown taxis. just because it's a car used professionally doesn't make it a pro car for the purposes of our club. superior started out building these kind of rigs. but not everything superior built fits our defenation of a pro car. checker cab is not but a checker med car is. sageway limo is and sageway airport limo is not. a 6 dr limo is in a 105 inch streach J seater is not

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But would'nt this then fit into the general passenger car based limousine class of our club?, Also how/why do we allow Van/Suburban/and other TRUCKS into a pro-CAR club when there are clearly NOT passenger based cars manufactured into a professional car?

Okay - another!

'53 Cadillac base rebodied by Saoutchik as a limo for King Abdul-Aziz of Saudi Arabia.



In '52 Jacques Saoutchik's business was taken over by his son Pierre. If this "creation" was any indicator of Pierre's visions - then it is no surprise that after 49 years the company closed down in '55.

And perhaps luckily for King Abdul-Aziz, he passed 11/9/53 - before potentially being seen in it much.

Lack of typical Saoutchik chic though isn't at stake. Does it fit club parameters for a professional car?

Couple eBay sellers have this vintage promotional shot. This ambulance is great, isn't it?

Anyway>>>>>It should fit club definition for ambulance! Passenger car base, custom purpose built...




Small inmate "patient" was probably used to having the cr*p kicked out of him.

Would that be a 12 passenger Airport Limo? I would say yes, but am looking forward to the discussion that I hope will come. I'm a little surprised it doesn't articulate, must be tough cornering in town.

I *think* there's a Cadillac under there:



(Found browsing the internet)

high end motorhome with a Eldorado FWD and most definitely caddy styling.
they did a number of them on the tornado also but were cheaper. I'm thinking they were warrantied for the power train threw GM dealers but I don't think GM had a Hand in building them.

Google "Star Streak II" for more info/pictures...

Holy crap!:



I know I'm derailing this thread a bit, but man, just when you think you've seen everything...

"J. Dennis McGuire built the ShamRockAway motorhome from two 1962 Buick station wagons, and it’s powered by a 401 Buick V8 out of Deuce & a Quarter. Except for the engine, it’s got two of everything: gas tanks, heaters, air conditioners etc. Oh wait, it’s got 8 wheels, with both front sets steering just like in a Tyrell six-wheeler F1 racer."



“I just kept one wagon whole in the middle, split another in half, and welded the front and back on the one in center. It fit together like a glove.”

Earle W Whitcher said:

Would that be a 12 passenger Airport Limo? I would say yes, but am looking forward to the discussion that I hope will come. I'm a little surprised it doesn't articulate, must be tough cornering in town.

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Its not as long as you think. Its alot shorter than most super stretch limos of today.

This has always been a sticky subject, but going way back in PCS history, by memory only, not research, I seem to remember the definition to include "based on passenger car styling", "used in the funeral, livery, or rescue industries". Somehow I seem to remember the words "commercial chassis" being included, but I could be wrong, as so many funeral and rescue vehicles that qualify actually had frames that were cut and lengthened. To me, livery has always equated with limousines, hinting at luxury, as opposed to taxis, which were simply utilitarian, and never considered to be pro-cars.

Then in Marietta Ohio it was declared that a very nice sedan delivery truck, nicely outfitted as a rescue vehicle, qualified. *shrug* (Nothing personal, JB, it's a very nice vehicle.) Just offering my memory and opinion. Please don't beat me up too badly over this. Tom

this is of course why we want to get the definitions nailed down. simple in the judging or out. easy to place in the correct class every meet. whats in or out is not as important as being consistent at each meet. but of course any car is welcome and we would love to see it not all will be judged. but if it's not this meet it will not be at the next one either. got to be consistent to keep our credibility. we have decited the taxie cabs are not pro cars. but how ever if the majority want them in, then all you got to do is vote on it. the members rule the clube not the leaders.

Attila Bethlenfalvy said:

Been thinking awhile about starting a legit thread inclusive of different non-tradtionally defined vehicles.

First up, a Checker with wheelchair access.

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A Checker Medicar flyer showing the actual use of the car.

I was always under the opinion that a professional car was any passanger based car that had the body modified from it's origional design to be used for a specific purpose in a business, not for personal/home use. Even though they may be privatly owned, a hearse is NOT for personal use, an ambulance is not for personal use, an airport limousine is not for personal use.

A taxi wouldn't qualify as a professional car because they are usually NOT modified from their factory built structure (including checker). However, the Checker wheelchair car IS modified...so therefore, it would be a pro car.

By this definintion, a sedan delivery used as an ambulance would not be a professional car if no additional modifications were made to the car, other than paint the word "ambulance" on it.

As with any definition, there are exceptions to this. The heases and ambulances built in the early car era of the 1920's that were built by coach builders from scratch, not using existing passanger cars would be professional cars, yet they were not "modified".

Is the idea of the Professional Car Society to recogonize and appreciate the coachwork and design of the vehicles? Remember and memorialize what the vehicle was used for? Or just enjoy passanger based hearses and ambulances? Decide this and you answer what a "pro car" is.

Though there are exceptions to every rule - we would all have to log off and go back to TV watching, otherwise! - I believe Bill Carlin's on the right track in emphasizing a professional vehicle involves the structural modification of a stock automobile to optimize its use in some sort of professional service. In my book (literally, in my book!), this definition encompasses invalid transport like the Checker, and airport limos like the Jetway 707 Toronado, whose photo I could never resist running as it's such a memorable testament to the coachbuilder's skill and imagination. Since it's a topic of great personal fascination for me, I've always advocated widening the definition to include any sort of vehicle customized for a head-of-state or a government, whether it's an armored White House limo or that truly wild, previously-posted Saoutchik 1953 Cadillac built for the king of Saudi Arabia.

If going by Bills deffinition we could not have series 75 limos and sedans, alot of them were used for personal.home use, and they were not really modified.
This thread is just making more confusion from something that is simply stated in the PCS decription as what a professional car is.

which is why we need to pin down our definitions. everyone has there car type they would like in. could we have a utility service class?? yes we could it would have a lot of these specialty built for a purpose cars that don't fit it to Hearses, Ambulance and Limos typically found in Livery service. all it would take to do so is a vote by the majority of the membership. but to crowd them in to the other classes only waters down the class. kind of like the argument of weather or not the light trucks should be in a class of there own. not the current high or low top ambulance class. we see both sides of that argument. the only one I see agents is the numbers. we find only one or two light trucks vans showing up. but they do at every meet. so maybe we need a light truck class. we could include the vans in it. this is what the board is for, give the members your input

This is a conversion done on a 1986 Lincoln Town Car, by AHA Corp. in Ontario, Canada. I owned this vehicle between '88 and '89. It is a passenger car based conversion, but was not used in the funeral, ambulance or livery business. Based on some of the varied definitions thrown out here on this thread, it could almost qualify as a "procar"!

John Royark JR said:

If going by Bills deffinition we could not have series 75 limos and sedans, alot of them were used for personal.home use, and they were not really modified.
This thread is just making more confusion from something that is simply stated in the PCS decription as what a professional car is.

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I agree with the "not reallly modified" part of that statement, BUT.....the Fleetwood 75 sedans/limos were indeed made by Cadillac (no involvement by an outside coachbuilder), but were made in a separate facility AND are on a Commercial Chassis. Because of this, there are many parts on these cars that are the same parts that are found on hearses/ambulances. As an example, I am having a heck of a time finding rear wheel bearings for my car, because they are different from the regular production Cadillacs because of the different rear end in the car--they are the same ones found on a hearse or ambulance because as stated previously, as it is a Commercial Chassis. They also have different braking systems, rear heat and air, and many other parts that are chassis specific.

I know some of these cars were used personally, like mine that was a chauffered car when new, and it eventually was owned and used by a funeral home. I really hope that the PCS continues to see these cars as part of the definiton of a Professional car. I would hate to think that after waiting to get one all these years, then finally doing so, putting time and money into it, only to have it struck from the list that is "acceptable". I do not have the money to buy or the space to store some huge stretch limo that is made by a coachbuilder just so that I can be in the club. Yes, I like hearse and ambulances, I just like the limos more. Thats

There is nothing in our judging rules that require that a vehicle have been for public use, and many limousines have been in private use when new, and have gone on to serve other people or business in their later life. How the vehicle is owned or used isn't the determination of a professional car, but how it was manufactured. If someone were to show up with a limousine driven by the United States Secret Service, and the President of the United States were to step out of it, it wouldn't change its status. It is still a limousine, and it along with the President would be welcome at our International Meet. Whether or not the registration fee would be waived, is another question that I can't answer... :drama: