For Sale 1973 Ambulance

I never understood the fascination with the Ghostbusters themed Ambulances.

Really? I mean, I'm not even a FAN of the Ghostbusters movies, but there are millions of fans worldwide - so many fans that many of the comments from the movie(s) have become part of the common vernacular, and at least the first movie of the series is being remade! There was Slimer-flavored ice-cream at Hardee's restaurants, kids played with Ecto-1 toys, and it was the best-known pro-car from a movie ever. OF COURSE it's gonna be copied and parodied! I know the pro-car world knocks these cars in general, but the people doing it are having fun, and it keeps a pro-car on the road. Maybe if people would loosen up about how other people treat their hearse/ambulance, more people would keep them from going to the crushers! Why should we care if someone else wants to put seats in a hearse, a ghost on the side of an ambulance, or any other thing if it keeps a hearse or ambulance that is no longer usable as such on the road?
 
Mr. Hord - I thought we already discussed this at: http://www.professionalcarsociety.org/forums/showthread.php?t=17418 ? Rather than repeat myself like you did here - I think a few points are topical.

Why do I care? Well - simply because of what I value. I am surely not ashamed to admit I liked Ghostbusters I and II, they were fun movies with great characters. Folks who make Ghostbusters knock-offs (or even exact replicas) out of professional cars value the movie far more than the car itself and its history. It's a prop for whatever purpose they so choose - ranging from entertainment/fun, pure love of the movie, or charity work at children's hospitals. No judgment for any - I like fun, and I'm sure children with cancer surely do love any visiting entertainment. The owners may value their vehicle - but if they so chose they could have restored it to its original state and they did not. My 1963 GMC-Christopher rescue ambulance from Norfolk FD - I have photos of that vehicle on the scene of rollover accidents and a city councilman being loaded in the back unresponsive after collapsing at a fire. During its 25 years in service, my Rhinecliff Rescue Squad 1963 Pinner-Chrysler is documented to have at least a few die en route, see the delivery of at least one baby, wrecks, a plane crash, and was even involved in a front-end collision during an emergency response that sent its driver to the hospital with head injuries. It's about what's valued most, pure and simple. When a replica-maker or other modifier sees a professional car - they see it in need of being changed into something else. You referenced the young mother from Iowa who purchased the 1983 S&S hearse. http://www.professionalcarsociety.org/forums/showthread.php?t=17414 She makes clear even to her child that she is "making it better" by turning it into a camper. When I see these cars, I see a historical artifact that just so happens to drive. I don't own a museum - but I wish I did and assist with two.

Look at many of the news stories on Ghostbusters replicas and you'll see a common theme of "trash to treasure." The general public seems to rarely appreciate a professional car unless it's in pristine condition or modified in some fashion. Unfortunately, fewer and fewer folks remember when ambulance service wasn't provided by a "Monster Medic." At 10 years your junior I surely never saw one in service. I have near-zero interest in straight hearses - but these vehicles too touched lives throughout their service time. From what I've seen - hearses unnerve the general public with their negative connection with the loss of a loved one. A necessary evil perhaps, but not something they want in their neighborhood as some have found... Even the antique ambulance has a negative light with the public - not only from the physical resemblance to contemporary and current hearses - but also that folks seem to believe prehospital care in the past was some kind of ill-conceived bloodbath with poor care. Conventional wisdom is that the funeral home ambulances weren't a matter of community convenience and generosity on the part of the local mortician, but instead a malignant conflict of interest. In retrospect - what's new is old and many of the touted advancements like spinal immobilization and advanced care like most drugs and intubation actually worsen outcomes in the field. Basic care measures - FIRST AID back in the day - actually makes a difference. Unfortunately, with the rapid turnover, fractured and divergent makeup of service types, and lack of centralization in the EMS community - few appreciate the history. It worries me that many folks who believe as I do about ambulances are those who worked on them years ago. Unlike the fire service, many EMS professionals (including myself at one point) chose to look down upon the past and our forebears in order to somehow make ourselves feel superior in some fashion. Funeral directors I suspect will have less trouble as they don't seem to have this affliction.

It disappointing to me that many folks' only connection to the vehicles we own is that movie, and I believe it's easy to observe that many here are frustrated by the endless parade of "Ghostbusters!" calls from the roadside. Although the replica-makers would be thrilled, that isn't what we purchased the car for. I literally can't drive my 1963 Pinner-Chrysler ambulance out onto the road without a pile of attention. Some is "nice car" or other usual classic car talk - but a significant portion of the time I have to get past someone's child-like excitement about seeing a "Ghostbuster car." Rather than answering someone's questions about the history of EMS, how the car was made, or any number of other things I'd enjoy talking about - I can either spend time getting past the topic of that movie or just smile and move on.

Adding onto all of this - is that professional cars are inherently uncommon. Sure - some are more common than others, but the "rare" conventional cars of which there are only a few dozen or hundreds was the norm for ours. It's more and more difficult to find an unmolested professional car, particularly in any degree of decent shape. Today's ambulances and hearses find themselves sold on the cheap, with few interested for any reason. It was no different in the past for even the most gorgeous professional car. Maybe one day, the aforementioned 1983 S&S being turned into a camper in Iowa will be the hot ticket item like any 1959 professional car is today. Why is that? Well, simply because it appears the vast majority of the few that didn't get crushed or rotted away are now Ghostbuster "replicas" or attempts. Once turned into a station wagon, Ghostbuster car, whathaveyou - it's basically done as far as PCS-types are concerned. Depending on just how far folks have gone in their "conversion" - there's no going back, at least without tearing apart another professional car. The parts these folks are getting rid of - interior primarily - for their purposes are the very ones you just can't get. Few would be violently ill if a true "****box" is modified, but from what I've seen it's primarily good, original cars that are chosen for this purpose. Same reasons we choose a car, are the same reasons folks looking for an Ecto are. I too like the "look" of the 1959 cars, but I doubt I will ever own such an ambulance due to this very fact.

That's just my opinion - and obviously you have yours. This is the forum of the Professional Car Society - which obviously supports historical preservation. What has been posted by the PCS Members above is the common sentiment of the group that seems to accompany these posts. Other forums may have a different opinion - maybe you should seek them out? I see you are not a PCS Member and primarily have come here seeking help in your posts - maybe you should have greater respect for the values of the group you are asking for it from? No one's going to change their mind about what they value based upon my post or yours. As said before - it's their car to do whatever they want with it. Rather than being upset, I wish more would just understand the difference in perspective and "live and let live." Just because others believe differently doesn't mean I have to take their ideals as my own. In your case though, there is no reason to beat a dead horse.
 
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Nicholas,
Strictly speaking for myself,I believe you hit the nail on the head with your post above.:thumbsup:
Very well said sir,and so true in all aspects !
 
I've found that most good organizations are made better by differing opinions. I'm not a PCS member yet, simply because I cannot support the organization financially at this time. Unlike the members here who own multiple cars and toys, and spend thousands upon thousands of dollars restoring their cars yearly, I can barely afford to keep gas in my tank and food on my table. I drive a hearse because I respect the amazing detail of the car, and the dependable drive-train. I'm not 100% sure what my plans are for it yet, but whatever they are, it won't involve transporting our dearly departed. There is ALMOST no chance my car will ever be used for that purpose again, no matter whether I restore it to 100% S&S factory standards or not. My point is, I'd like to see more hearses, ambulances, fire trucks, retired cop cars, military vehicles, and all that type equipment stay on the road, even if it is modified in some way different from it's original purpose. And I'd be willing to bet that there are DUES PAYING MEMBERS of the PCS who feel the same way. So I am merely offering a counterpoint - one that might represent a tiny handful, or one that might represent the future of the PCS. The statement "I never understood the fascination...." was open to interpretation, and I interpreted it to mean that Mr Joe Marten might be interested in in some reasons why a person would be fascinated. I like what the PCS does, and I think that there is a place for perfectly restored hearses, ambulances, etc. in this world. But I also believe that there is a place for people who want to make some modification - and I think an open-minded, friendly group of people can coexist who value both ideas, under the same umbrella. Why does it have to be all black or all white, when most of the world is made up of shades of gray? It just seems like a limitation that doesn't need to be placed, because when you shun people who are pro-modification from the group, you are also shunning people who may have knowledge, parts, information, mechanical abilities, outreach capabilities, financial strength, networking abilities, and lord knows what else. When you make things exclusive, that means you EXCLUDE. When you exclude, you never know what you're missing. When you're INCLUSIVE, you never know what you might find! If not one person agrees with me who posts here, be they dues-paying members or not, I might pull up stakes, since I've been invited to do so. But I doubt that no one here agrees.
 
Read the PCS bylaws and what the PCS is about. This club was not meant to be an all inclusive free for all. Why do people always come here and try to change the values and goals of the PCS so they fit in because they want to ruin a very rare hand built car to make a station wagon, or some other monstrosity like an incorrEcto?
There are plenty of clubs that take stock and custom coaches, but it is not what the PCS is about. Do you go to other car clubs that only stock cars are allowed and tell them it would be better if they allowed customs? If you did, I bet you would get the same answers that you are getting here. If people keep destroying these cars there will not be any left for historical purposes, people that want a original classic, or for future generations to see and learn how far these professions have come.
Its because of the PCS that our cars are even allowed into many shows now, when before they were shunned because of the ghoul crap or complete modification of what these cars were meant to be. Now, they see where we stand with being a preservation and historic club, so they are seeing them that way too, not as a rolling Halloween prop.
This club has thrived for the last 39 years keeping the values it started with, while many custom pro car clubs have came and gone overnight. There must be something the PCS is doing right.
I would much rather see my coaches crushed than seeing it loose all its historic value and dignity by having the rear cut up and turned into a station wagon. You see those all the time for sale, when people loose interest they cant sell them, and eventually get junked anyway. So, no or later, hacking one up is a fast track to the salvage yard.
 
Mr. Hord - Your opinion is your opinion - not necessarily wrong - just yours. Maybe in the end I'll be on the wrong side of history. Who's to say - my desire for prehospital care history will one day be outclassed by the start of the Church of Bill Murray and Ecto-1 painted cars will roam the streets nationwide. Do you watch American Pickers? I never knew that there was a fad in the 1960s that "chopper-ized" old motorcycles, and thus today it is hard to find an unmolested one. One day there may not be a single 1959 ambulance remaining in its original form, I only know of a couple myself today. The PCS exists as a group of folks who say they would rather not have that happen. Simple as that.

By your refusal to accept Mr. Marten's and Mr. Renstrom's in the previous thread - you are intolerant of his. This is the "group consensus" and what makes the PCS the PCS. At the end of the day - is a group dedicated to authentic Civil War re-enacting in full support of the Star Trek cos-play folks that show up? Frankly - I think the latter is interesting and kinda cool, but it isn't what the group believes in. That's why there's different groups. Doesn't mean one can't interact. Doesn't mean they are necessarily contrary to each other. They just believe differently and folks should understand and tolerate each other even if they don't agree. The PCS is about historical preservation. It is a historical society and a conglomeration of many "amateur historians" who appreciate and preserve the past. There isn't a big "ambulance museum" out there - we're it. I, at 26 years old, own two ambulances that are the last of their kind. I park one at the SAFD museum at their request on weekends and the other has a similar museum jealous indeed. I view it as a responsibility when it gets down to it. I'm just the caretaker of something that really should be in a "better place."

Don't change your opinion - again - I can see some of where you come from. Surely you will do what you wish with your car regardless of what I say anyway. (as you should!) However, trying to say my view and the written, core values of the group are wrong is just plain ole' intolerant in my view. Why leave? If it benefits you and you can add to the group's knowledge - than surely do so. You can do that without attacking those who believe differently - as this is where they choose to find like-minded folks. Just my opinion.

P.S.: I mention ambulances a lot because of my interest (I also like combination cars and rescue trucks). I respect hearses and what they are, their beauty, and history. Just not of heavy personal interest to me - so I don't use as many examples. Nothing against 'em, my wife wants one and we're hoping our next car one day will be a 1950s era hearse for her.
 
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Mr. Hord... I invite you to stay here, but I have but one question to ask...... If you owned the original Venus de Milo statue, would you commission someone to add the missing arms, or would you leave it alone, and preserve it in the state that it was found?
 

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Mr. Hord... I invite you to stay here, but I have but one question to ask...... If you owned the original Venus de Milo statue, would you commission someone to add the missing arms, or would you leave it alone, and preserve it in the state that it was found?

Fair question. I'm a little bit different. I'd want to keep the original as is, but commission an exact replica, but with the arms there. I've always felt that it was unlikely that the statue was built without arms, and I'd like to see them there. Kind of like my mod vs. restore issue - I want to see both, holding hands together. I don't want the world to be all of one, or all of the other. Gray is my favorite color!

I appreciate the friendly debate, guys and gals. I realize you're just defending what you believe in. That means a lot to me. I'll make more of an effort not to ruffle your feathers folks. I just had an opinion and felt that it needed to be said, though not that it needs to be said over and over. I had kind of forgot about that other thread mentioned above (sleep apnea has destroyed my memory.) I really do find it inspirational when people are so dedicated to a thing, a craft, a hobby, an idea, their religion, a cause. So even though I feel like I lost a major battle and need to surrender, I couldn't be doing it to a better group of people!
 
Actually, it was originally built with arms. Then someone modified it. Get the picture now. We still have it, but no one has ever seen it with arms because it's altered. We all know what arms look like we just don't know what her arms looked like. So now it's preserved as altered not as original.

It all comes down to your car do as you want., don't expect me to applaud you. if you change it because if it's changed, it's not a Hearse. Just another project car.

Seen it, done a number of times and these ecto recreations are no different then Shirners parade wagons. One more original car gone.

the group that likes to do this, more power to them. Whether I think they need to get a life or not. is and should be nothing to them. but just because you can recognize what it started out as dosen't mean it's saved
 
I appreciate the friendly debate, guys and gals. !

Take it as such Wesley. Good bunch here and a bit vocal at times about what the PCS is. Having the public yell out, "GHOSTBUSTERS" or "WHO YOU GONNA CALL" sort of ticked me off at first but not now. The public sees these old ambulances just as that. I love the comments at car shows when people walking by telling their girlfriend that my ambulance (1973 Cadillac) is the exact car used in GHOSTBUSTERS. I don't even correct them anymore and just smile.

It is what it is. This guy chased me down to see my rig but I spent more time listening to him about how he converted his Jeep in to this GHOSTBUSTER display. Quite creative.
 

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Nicholas' 3rd paragraph that begins with, "It is disappointing to me that many folks only connection to the vehicles we own is that movie..." That's it. Thanks Nicholas...
I owned a 1978 Superior Transport ambulance for 10 years, I had my fun with it. But instead of it being a part of history and something interesting, 95% of the attention given to it was the "Ghostbusters" comment. For the car enthusiast, how someone can mistake a 1978 Cadillac for a 1959 Cadillac, we'll just never understand. I think I experienced a higher than usual aggravated reaction to these comments than most PCS members.
One of the last car shows I went to, I overheard two guys talking who said, "Man, that guy did a p&*$ poor job of making that hearse a Ghostbusters..."
I had a fireman to tell me that my car looked EXACTLY like the Ghostbusters car, to which I pointed to his fire bay and said, "Do you think that 1979 ALF looks like that 2004 Sutphen?" and he said, "Gosh no, ofcourse not..."
I will post the my former 1978 Superior Transport (now owned by Dennis Goethe) below and you can check the resemblance...
 

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I don't know how you can tell the two apart.....:D
 

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Nicholas' 3rd paragraph that begins with, "It is disappointing to me that many folks only connection to the vehicles we own is that movie..." That's it. Thanks Nicholas...
I owned a 1978 Superior Transport ambulance for 10 years, I had my fun with it. But instead of it being a part of history and something interesting, 95% of the attention given to it was the "Ghostbusters" comment. For the car enthusiast, how someone can mistake a 1978 Cadillac for a 1959 Cadillac, we'll just never understand. I think I experienced a higher than usual aggravated reaction to these comments than most PCS members.
One of the last car shows I went to, I overheard two guys talking who said, "Man, that guy did a p&*$ poor job of making that hearse a Ghostbusters..."
I had a fireman to tell me that my car looked EXACTLY like the Ghostbusters car, to which I pointed to his fire bay and said, "Do you think that 1979 ALF looks like that 2004 Sutphen?" and he said, "Gosh no, ofcourse not..."
I will post the my former 1978 Superior Transport (now owned by Dennis Goethe) below and you can check the resemblance...

I also LOVE that comment from Nicholas, it speaks volumes.
You are not the only one that gets extremely aggravated at those comments, especially when I hear it with my 1995 Superior Chevy Chancellor hearse! I don't hear it as much as I do with my older hearses and ambulances, but once is more than it should be.
Im not one that can just let it slide at shows, I have to make a comment (or three) so maybe next time they know the difference and what these cars are really about. After all no one yells Dukes of Hazzard when they see a newer charger, or the A Team every time they see a van go by. So why do we have to suffer the wrath of the comparison of a movie car?
And just so everyone knows, I do love the Ghostbusters movies, and its just for the car. I saw the movie when it just came out when I was 9-10, and I really think it had a big part in my pro car addiction, although I would NEVER consider destroying a pro car to build one.
I would have to agree though, your 78 Superior does look just like it, I can see how people mistake them :)
 
Actually, it was originally built with arms. Then someone modified it. Get the picture now. We still have it, but no one has ever seen it with arms because it's altered. We all know what arms look like we just don't know what her arms looked like. So now it's preserved as altered not as original.

It all comes down to your car do as you want., don't expect me to applaud you. if you change it because if it's changed, it's not a Hearse. Just another project car.

Seen it, done a number of times and these ecto recreations are no different then Shirners parade wagons. One more original car gone.

the group that likes to do this, more power to them. Whether I think they need to get a life or not. is and should be nothing to them. but just because you can recognize what it started out as dosen't mean it's saved

Very good way to look at it. It really puts it in perspective using a different work of art, but still getting the point across. I never would have thought of comparing it to something like this, I may have to try to remember that when I talk to people at shows.
 
...It just seems like a limitation that doesn't need to be placed, because when you shun people who are pro-modification from the group, you are also shunning people who may have knowledge, parts, information, mechanical abilities, outreach capabilities, financial strength, networking abilities, and lord knows what else. When you make things exclusive, that means you EXCLUDE. When you exclude, you never know what you're missing...
Wesley, contrary to some folks' belief, we do not shun people. Never have, never will. There are rules for the display of professional cars at meets, but nothing that prevents any people from participating. Believe me when I say we have ALL types of people in this club, and all are welcome if they want to be here.

But we are indeed a club of people who are interested in the historical restoration of pro-cars - and not interested in extreme modifications that destroy the integrity of the car. Remember, the interior is as much a part of the professional car as the exterior. For many of these extreme modifications, the interior is the first to go.

"Mama, look, I made you a paper snowflake!"
"Junior, that paper was the United States Constitution!"
"Yeah, but isn't it a pretty snowflake?"
 

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