'71 CC axle interchange w/ '72?

UK member on another forum hasn't had much luck receiving a definitive answer. This is out of my year range...

'71 CC (assumed hearse, unknown which, not that it makes a difference) w/ a damaged half shaft. He's located a '72 Series 75 limo @ a breaker 200 miles away. Plans to pick entire axle up if it'll work but only replace half shaft and keep the rest around for spares. Looking for someone to confirm that they are indeed the same before making trip, given cost of fuel, bigger CC half shaft and carrier bearing on '71, etc.

And if they are the same, what year range would that cover?

Also, to help me grow, would gear ratios between them likewise be the same? Thanks!
 
The shafts will interchange between 1971 & 1976 all Commercial Chassis cars, including the factory built limousine. The differentials are the same for the same time period, with the exception that the limited slip differential will only interchange with an other limited slip differential. Only other exception to this is that the limousine used coil springs in the rear, so if you want to use the complete axle assembly in a coach built commercial chassis car, then you will need to transfer the spring perch assemblies. Also, one very important thing is that the drive-shaft halves have to be maintained in their original position, since they are "indexed" or "phased" to each half shaft to prevent binding as the drive-shaft moves through its "arc" of travel. Failure to maintain the correct index will result in premature failure of the drive-shaft universals.
 
there isn't any one around that will repair, rebuild, remake a drive shaft?
the man needs parts anyway. but I would think they could get one repaired
 
The shafts will interchange between 1971 & 1976 all Commercial Chassis cars, including the factory built limousine. The differentials are the same for the same time period, with the exception that the limited slip differential will only interchange with an other limited slip differential. Only other exception to this is that the limousine used coil springs in the rear, so if you want to use the complete axle assembly in a coach built commercial chassis car, then you will need to transfer the spring perch assemblies. Also, one very important thing is that the drive-shaft halves have to be maintained in their original position, since they are "indexed" or "phased" to each half shaft to prevent binding as the drive-shaft moves through its "arc" of travel. Failure to maintain the correct index will result in premature failure of the drive-shaft universals.


I'm the guy from the UK with the '71 hearse, thanks for the info that's great news that the limo uses the same axle as the CC. I always make sure that parts go back to their original postion, but how would I be able to maintain this if I was to swap a half shaft from the limo axle to mine??

Also the main reason the shaft got damaged was because I changed the rear whell bearing about 1000 mile ago, but coming home from a show the retaining ring come adrift from the half shaft and the shaft come out of the axle, luckily I was only doing about 20 mph, or it would've been much worse, I had no reason to suspect the retaining ring supplied with the bearing would be oversize, but there was no ware on the shaft and (having measured it since) I have a 3 thou interference fit, obviously this is not sufficient enough, can you advise what the interference fit should be for the retaining ring?

Thanks again.
 
there isn't any one around that will repair, rebuild, remake a drive shaft?
the man needs parts anyway. but I would think they could get one repaired


I have tried everywhere, for someone to repair or remake a halfshaft, most won't touch it as soon as I tell them what it's off, and those that will are asking stupid amounts of money to do so. I can actually buy the limo as a rolling shell with all it's interior fittings and rear end, but no engine, front wings, hood etc for less than what they have quoted to make a shaft!!!
 
I can actually buy the limo as a rolling shell with all it's interior fittings and rear end, but no engine, front wings, hood etc for less than what they have quoted to make a shaft!!!

Plus you could possibly make a little bit of your money back if you were willing to sell a few things off the car. Specifically, the decorative cap covering the pull strap screw closest to the dashboard on the driver's door and the F L E E T W O O D trunk letters.
 
We both speak the same language, but the translation from American English to the English spoken in Great Britain leaves a lot to be desired when we are trying to communicate across the Great Pond. Lets start with the basic question that was asked by Attila. He said "half shaft", which would mean to me, one half of the drive shaft. Obviously, from your follow up question, we are discussing two different parts of the drive line. When you refer to "half shafts", now, I realize that you are referring to the axles.
If you changed the axle, and the retaining clip didn't hold, then I would be inclined to believe that there is something more wrong with the assembly than just the locking clip. It would be my guess that the bearing on the axle that you used for the replacement was not installed far enough on the shaft to allow for the locking ring to secure the axle shaft inside the differential. I don't have a 1971 service manual, so I can't give you the factory specification for this dimension. What I would suggest is that you transfer the leaf spring attachments to the differential assembly that you are purchasing, and not try to use the individual components to repair your original differential assembly. I make this suggestion for a number of reasons.
1) It is already assembled, and it is assumed to be known to be a good unit.
2) You might have a damaged differential in your original assembly. The differential is the gear assembly that is inside the steel tube.
3) The rear axle seals are no longer available, and you would need to replace the entire bearing assembly with the replacement one piece bearing and seal assembly, which is quite expensive, and needs special equipment to press it onto the axle shaft, after the original bearing is pressed off the axle shaft.

I have provided pictures of the differential and the drive-shaft, along with corresponding parts description. When discussing this, if we both refer to the part description number and name, I think that we should be able to understand each other without difficulty.
 

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Attached are photos of the mid-spline portion located at the carrier bearing underneath on a C.C. drive shaft off of a 1973 Miller-Meteor parts car. This spline is on the rear portion shaft as the drive shaft on a C.C. car is a two peice shaft as opposed to a one peice shaft on passager cars. I have red arrows noteing a wire tang that goes between two splines for shaft orentation although a little hard to see. This is so the shaft will go back onto the car in the orentation as it came off the car. The tail shaft of the transmission also has one of these wire tangs for orentation and line up of the shaft as well and you can see it on the end of the tranny tail shaft when the drive shaft is removed. This should be the same (if tang isn't broken or removed) on all 1971-1976 C.C. cars.
 

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Info From 66-76 Hollander Interchange

We both speak the same language, but the translation from American English to the English spoken in Great Britain leaves a lot to be desired when we are trying to communicate across the Great Pond. Lets start with the basic question that was asked by Attila. He said "half shaft", which would mean to me, one half of the drive shaft. Obviously, from your follow up question, we are discussing two different parts of the drive line. When you refer to "half shafts", now, I realize that you are referring to the axles.









If you save the image you can then open it and enlarge the type to make it easier to read. Scan came out crappy.
 
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having the Axel slide out is not a fun thing. but Paul's suggestion of putting your spring perches on the limo rear end assembly is you best bet. they will knock off rather easily as they are just tacked in place and that all you need to do to put them on the other one. the u clams is what holds it down the tack weld helps keep it from rotating. the best way would be to jack your car up and measure from the end of the pinion to the floor. then put the limo assembly in you car on the perches loose so you can position it were the other one was. get it centered and the measurement the same. clamp it with the u bolts and then tack the perches on the housing. this will assure you the angle is correct on the housing and its spaced correct on the springs. you feel you need new perches to use, one of the speed shops like jegs.com will sell you new ones. if yours has the c clips that hold the axle in, the end of the axle usually breaks off before it slides out. the shaft in the spider gears is what keeps the C clip in place. to swap axles is possible but you will most likly damage the axle seal and you can't get a new one
 
We both speak the same language, but the translation from American English to the English spoken in Great Britain leaves a lot to be desired when we are trying to communicate across the Great Pond. Lets start with the basic question that was asked by Attila. He said "half shaft", which would mean to me, one half of the drive shaft. Obviously, from your follow up question, we are discussing two different parts of the drive line. When you refer to "half shafts", now, I realize that you are referring to the axles.
If you changed the axle, and the retaining clip didn't hold, then I would be inclined to believe that there is something more wrong with the assembly than just the locking clip. It would be my guess that the bearing on the axle that you used for the replacement was not installed far enough on the shaft to allow for the locking ring to secure the axle shaft inside the differential. I don't have a 1971 service manual, so I can't give you the factory specification for this dimension. What I would suggest is that you transfer the leaf spring attachments to the differential assembly that you are purchasing, and not try to use the individual components to repair your original differential assembly. I make this suggestion for a number of reasons.
1) It is already assembled, and it is assumed to be known to be a good unit.
2) You might have a damaged differential in your original assembly. The differential is the gear assembly that is inside the steel tube.
3) The rear axle seals are no longer available, and you would need to replace the entire bearing assembly with the replacement one piece bearing and seal assembly, which is quite expensive, and needs special equipment to press it onto the axle shaft, after the original bearing is pressed off the axle shaft.

I have provided pictures of the differential and the drive-shaft, along with corresponding parts description. When discussing this, if we both refer to the part description number and name, I think that we should be able to understand each other without difficulty.

Yes there has been some confusion over the terms, to us the main driveshaft we would call the prop, however many pieces it comes in, and the shafts in the rear axle as they only go half way as they enter the diff we call the half shafts.

Thanks. I am talking about the assembly marked 8 on the 2nd pdf you attached.

I see your reasoning, for suggesting transfering the complete diff assembly, and yes I do assume that the one on the Limo is good, but I have driven 500 mile on mine since the shaft pulled out of the diff, (evn though this has been slow driving) so I know there is no damage to my diff, I have got new bearings from a Renault van which are the same spec as the original bearings (neighbour has a hydraulic press in his shop, so no problem pressing the bearing on), and I have got seals off the shelf from my local bearing company the Id and Od are correct but the thickness is slightly narrower but this is easily packed out, BUT if I can pull a half shaft out of one assembly and put it straight into mine, which I can do very quickly, it saves a lot of work and hours changing the entire axle, which I do not have room to do.

Incase I do need to put a new seal, bearing and retainer on the new shaft though. I would really like to find out the dimensions and interference fit to the retainer ring, so I could get one made.
 
having the Axel slide out is not a fun thing. but Paul's suggestion of putting your spring perches on the limo rear end assembly is you best bet. they will knock off rather easily as they are just tacked in place and that all you need to do to put them on the other one. the u clams is what holds it down the tack weld helps keep it from rotating. the best way would be to jack your car up and measure from the end of the pinion to the floor. then put the limo assembly in you car on the perches loose so you can position it were the other one was. get it centered and the measurement the same. clamp it with the u bolts and then tack the perches on the housing. this will assure you the angle is correct on the housing and its spaced correct on the springs. you feel you need new perches to use, one of the speed shops like jegs.com will sell you new ones. if yours has the c clips that hold the axle in, the end of the axle usually breaks off before it slides out. the shaft in the spider gears is what keeps the C clip in place. to swap axles is possible but you will most likly damage the axle seal and you can't get a new one


There is no c clip on the end of the axle shaft inside the diff on the early models all that holds the assembly in the axle tube is the bearing retainer ring part number 14 on the 2nd pdf Paul attached to his earlier message.
 
Thanks for your information. I wasn't aware of any seal assembly that is available as a replacement. Could you please send me the information as to brand and part number? I will do some additional checking for the specification that you are looking for, however, you should be able to measure this off of the replacement differential assembly.
Paul
 
Ok guess I'm lost, printed out the pictures of it. had a few that style apart a number of times. just what failed. if you have put the retainer back in to hold the bearing in the housing and got 500 miles on it with out it leaking I would say your good to go. it was number 11 that came undone and let it slide out still attached to the brake drum and wheel. if it popes off with out damaging the seal and it slide it back in. reattach the retainer and go. normally if the retainer loosen up it lets the half shaft slide in and out and that tears up the seal. if you got it back in and the bearing is not bad the seal is not leaking the retainer is tight your good to go. just watch for signs of it leaking which is a indication of bearing failure. to go pop the one out of the other car and put it in is risky for the same reasons just stated. you might get away with it you might not. but if you do what have you gained if what you have is working fine. if you feel that the retainer is to torn up to hold then swap them expect the seal to leak if it does you'll have to pull the bearing and replace it to put a new seal on. but please send us your source for the bearing and seal. we can't get any over here
 
Thanks for your information. I wasn't aware of any seal assembly that is available as a replacement. Could you please send me the information as to brand and part number? I will do some additional checking for the specification that you are looking for, however, you should be able to measure this off of the replacement differential assembly.
Paul

The seal I got isn't officially a replacement part, it's just one I located, it's still on the car at the moment so can't check brand or number, will contact the supplier next week and ask.

It would be great if you could find the specification for the interference fit of the retainer on the shaft. I can't measure it off the replacement diff assy because unless I can confirm it is the CC axle I won't be getting it.
 
Ok guess I'm lost, printed out the pictures of it. had a few that style apart a number of times. just what failed. if you have put the retainer back in to hold the bearing in the housing and got 500 miles on it with out it leaking I would say your good to go. it was number 11 that came undone and let it slide out still attached to the brake drum and wheel. if it popes off with out damaging the seal and it slide it back in. reattach the retainer and go. normally if the retainer loosen up it lets the half shaft slide in and out and that tears up the seal. if you got it back in and the bearing is not bad the seal is not leaking the retainer is tight your good to go. just watch for signs of it leaking which is a indication of bearing failure. to go pop the one out of the other car and put it in is risky for the same reasons just stated. you might get away with it you might not. but if you do what have you gained if what you have is working fine. if you feel that the retainer is to torn up to hold then swap them expect the seal to leak if it does you'll have to pull the bearing and replace it to put a new seal on. but please send us your source for the bearing and seal. we can't get any over here

Yes I have got 500 mile out of the diff since re-assembly and there is no oil leaking, but the retainer ring #14 has slipped at least 2mm giving play and movement on the shaft which in turn will act as a hammer action ripping the retainer ring off again enabling the shaft to pull out. #11 did not come undone it was still torqued up and in place, it was the retainer which failed, "which is why I would like a specification for what size the retainer should be with tolerances, to give me the correct interferrence fit), the 500 mile I have done have all been done painfully slow, I can't and will not take the car out at high speeds as I don't feel confident with it as it is. When the half shaft came out of the axle the whole weight of the car came down on it bending it, I have spun it up in the lathe and I only have 2 thou of throw at the spline end and the same at the bearing end but I have 7mm throw in the centre of the shaft, hence why I want to change it.
 
pull it out and press it back in place sounds like a plane but I would guess it slipped and that's why it came out if it won't hold the bearing in place it can't stay. Paule will cringe but those of us that did not have access to a press would take the ring heat it cherry red then drop it over the Axel. using a pipe tap it in place when it was still hot them dose it with cold water to set it. if I could find a bearing and seal new I would just change them. as for the interchange here is what what the bible says for your car. you can get any better then that. all you have to determine is if is a locking rear end or not if it is a locking it will be labeled anti spin on a tag in the glove box. but if you can jack up both wheels and you rotate one the other goes the same direction it's a locker. the only exception wold be is the clutches in the rear end ore out then it might not rotate both wheels. the book says only CC assembly will swap. but Hollanders will only tell you it will if it's a direct swap.
 

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Axle

Remember to switch the wheel studs also , they are longer in the CC axle . Some Pics with # s on the axle out of a 75 M-M . Retainer ring has # on it and also a # of the bearing to use it with . The seal I think is just a reboxed OEM part.
 

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Well, I bit the bullet on the weekend and drove up country to check out the Limo axle. The housing itself is completely different with 6 brackets welded to it for the coil springs and trailing arms, upon taking it apart, the first thing I noticed was, there was no wheel spacer and the wheel nuts were shorter, but after popping the half shaft out, everything else was identical, so I brought the axle home with me.

My next query is:-

When the half shaft pulled out off the diff the splines come to rest on the adjuster nut of the diff, tearing it apart, it hasn't moved and everything is still solid, but there is a hell of a lot of filings in the diff now, I have flushed it several times and as I said earlier I have driven it 500 miles, but now I have another diff, I'm debating about swapping the whole diff. Are the diff ratios between the Limo and CC the same??? Is it marked anywhere on the casing, if so where would I find it?

Thanks for all your help guys!!
 
Remember to switch the wheel studs also , they are longer in the CC axle . Some Pics with # s on the axle out of a 75 M-M . Retainer ring has # on it and also a # of the bearing to use it with . The seal I think is just a reboxed OEM part.


Hey thanks. I was actually just about to ask about the wheel studs. Are the longer studs used on all CC axle's or is it an MM adaption? Do you know why they have the longer studs?
 
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