Your opinion please

Mike Stevens

PCS Member
We refer to our coaches as a Superior Cadillac, a Miller-Meteor Cadillac, a Eureka Cadillac, a Superior Pontiac, you get the idea. We name the builder of the finished coach and then the chassis maker whatever chassis that may be. I was recently very 'diplomatically' disinvited to an orphan car show. My idea was that since Miller-Meteor is not a name in current production that an M-M car would be an orphan. The show promoter felt that since the car is a Cadillac and Cadillacs are still being built that the 61 M-M coach was not eligible for display at his show. I told him it was based on a Cadillac but he insisted it IS a Cadillac.
Now: your opinion?
Mike
 
The fact that you were diplomatically dis-invited would cause me to advise them they are incorrect,and leave as requested,causing a scene would do no one any good,
 
Interesting point you are making Mike. My guess is that although we refer to them as Superior Pontiac, etc, the fact remains that for the most part, they are Cadillacs, Pontiacs, or whatever. Now, I suppose that if you bring a Superior Pontiac, a Cotner-Bevington Oldsmobile, or a Henney Packard, then they would have to let you in.
 
the simple fact that cadillac has not produced a commercial chassis since 1984 and the MM company went out of business in the late 70's says they are wrong. it also shows how much work there is to do in the mainstream car community. the car is built on a chassis that is no longer produced. how ever I'll bet my 72 CB would have been welcomed.
 
no scene

Wayne,
It is always in my head that our actions reflect upon the PCS. Especially when we are in our coaches. I thanked the guy for letting me explain my opinion. Then I thanked him for his time and consideration. I doubt if I had a Studebaker or a Nash or whatever that I would go to one of his shows now.
Mike
 
Too many know-it-alls out there

You're not going to convince these people. They can't admit they didn't know something or made a mistake. You were trying to do them a favor. Luckily there are plenty of venues around you where you can feel appreciated and proud. I don't bother trying to get into two venues in Florida because the organizers feel an ambulance is exactly the same as a hearse and it's too depressing. Oh well, their loss.
 
:893USA-Smilie-thumbThere is always someone who will want to split hairs when it comes to determining classes of vehicles at a car show.Better to act diplomatically and not cause a scene.

You did the right thing,Mike,even though it might have been a little distasteful.reflects well on you,and our club,too!!
 
I believe there is more "coach" than "Cadillac" in a pro car.

I'd say you should have been allowed but the guy had his mind made up anyway so nothing you could have said or done at that point.

Too bad.

Darren
 
Mike,
Glad to see you took the High Road in dealing with them, well done. My opinion is that it does not matter what it is built on, it still is a XXXXXX Cadillac, Lincoln, Packard, etc. I went through something similar once when my 1987 H&E six door, front wheel drive, dark blue with a carmel interior and cloth top was too new to display, I guess that it was different did not matter. I took the same diplomatic approach you did. I went the next year and everyone "never seen on of those..."
That is what I like about our society. We are NOT a group of hair splitters or finger pointers over things becuase with any of our coaches when new, with enough money, could be done any way you want and now if we want, can do the same.
My position is that we are saving a diminishing number of special coaches with the right attitude and respect.
Just my opinion.
Gus
 
I always enter my cars as the Coachbuilder as the make, and the coachbuilder model (knickerbocker, Sovereign, Victoria ETC), Never had any problems putting them in any class yet, including orphan for the ones that apply.
Ive even put them in custom since they are a custom hand built product modifying a factory built car.
 
That's an interesting situation Mike. While i agree with you, i see the show promoters side too. It's a difficult call. How do you explain to them that its built on a defunct Cadillac chassis and its only Cadillac from the fire wall forward. While we know its coach built from the hood back, and the rest is merely built to the likeliness of a Cadillac of that year, lets face it, to everyone else its "just" a Cadillac. Many people are oblivious to that. Ill bet 94% of the people that ask me about mine just assume that Cadillac built them. And you did the right thing. Its their loss.
 
Mike,
To me it sounds like you encountered an ignorant a$$. I love it when people know more about the car than the owner.
 
Yes the chassis was built by Cadillac, and if M-M was still in business I could understand them saying it's not really an orphan car. In a way though, it's probably a tribute to the design excellence at M-M that the body lines flow similar to how they do in a regular passenger car, even though M-M designed and built every inch of that car from the cowl back, and from the frame up. But I think a lot of people assumed they could just go to their Cadillac dealership and buy a professional car Cadillac just like they bought their Fleetwood. Could you imagine them walking into a Cadillac dealer wanting to order a Cadillac funeral coach, insisting that it be an Eldorado?

It's their loss!

Abe
 
I can see both sides of this discussion. It all depends on what the show organizers are using for a definition of an orphan. Is it a discontinued MODEL or MAKE? If they go by the verbage MAKE, then no, its not an orphan since Cadillac is still produce. If you go by the verbage MODEL, then yes, M-M is discontinued, CC is discontinued, even Fleetwood is. Remember too, the car is titled as a CADILLAC not as a Miller-Meteor. As another scenario, would a Dodge Neon be turned away but a Plymouth Neon allowed? Its all in what their definition of an orphan is.
 
M-M designed and built every inch of that car from the cowl back, and from the frame up. But I think a lot of people assumed they could just go to their Cadillac dealership and buy a professional car Cadillac just like they bought their Fleetwood. Could you imagine them walking into a Cadillac dealer wanting to order a Cadillac funeral coach, insisting that it be an Eldorado?

It's their loss!

Abe

Thats why every time I show my cars I have on the display board that tells about the car, including that they are not built by vehicle manufactures, but sent to various coachbuilders that convert them into hearses, limos, ambulances ETC. I do go more into detail on my board than I did here, but you get the idea.
 
To the public - and to the car hobbiests outside of our club - our cars are what is on the grille and hood. In your case, to them, it's a Cadillac. As they are looking for orphan makes, the "make" is Cadillac, even though it was only partially "made" by Cadillac. You're right, though, no point in arguing it.

A Superior Pontiac or a Cotner-Bevington Olds would have fit right in though.

On the other hand, I will be taking my Miller-Meteor Cadillac to the Cadillac-LaSalle Club show in October. Again, to them, it's a Cadillac and is welcome.
 
To the public - and to the car hobbiests outside of our club - our cars are what is on the grille and hood. In your case, to them, it's a Cadillac. As they are looking for orphan makes, the "make" is Cadillac, even though it was only partially "made" by Cadillac. You're right, though, no point in arguing it.

A Superior Pontiac or a Cotner-Bevington Olds would have fit right in though.

On the other hand, I will be taking my Miller-Meteor Cadillac to the Cadillac-LaSalle Club show in October. Again, to them, it's a Cadillac and is welcome.

Dont forget Eureka Pontiac.
Also you cant always go by whats on the hood or grille. Sometimes all the makes badging is removed, and only coachbuilder badging is there, like on my Superior Chevy, the Eureka Buillacs, and many of the older ones.
But I do agree how the public sees them, i just wanted to mention that chassis make is not always left on these cars.
 
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