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Technical Discussion Forum For the discussion of technical questions about Professional Cars and their repair and maintenance. Posting in this forum is limited to PCS Members and / or Site Supporters. We encourage all website users to become members of the Professional Car Society and / or become Site Supporter.

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  #21  
Old 06-02-2017, 12:29 AM
Paul Steinberg Paul Steinberg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Suiter View Post
Timing theory is real easy to prove or disprove with a timing light on that vintage.
Please describe the method using a timing light that will prove a bad timing chain.
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Old 06-02-2017, 02:31 PM
Walter Suiter Walter Suiter is offline
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Originally Posted by Paul Steinberg View Post
Please describe the method using a timing light that will prove a bad timing chain.
The timing light will indicate where the engine is firing during the starting attempt.
If the chain is excessively sloppy or one of the sprockets is badly enough worn it will be evident with the light.

I'd be inclined to look to a timing chain problem in a slow starter situation far after I eliminated all possible low voltage to the starter possibilities.
GM was famous for minimalist capacity on the ground connection between engine and battery.

The slow first start of the day followed by good starter speed for the rest of the day pretty much says either a battery or a ground problem.
In a vehicle with parallel 12 volt batteries a bad intercell jumper could easily draw down both batteries in parked condition if the batteries are not isolated.

Since it was mentioned GM connected the battery to engine in this model via the frame crossmember, my first move looking for the problem would probably be jumper cables from engine block to battery-. That would bypass any resistance in either the connection made by frame rivets or a corroded connection to the frame itself.

I see the problem more related to a high resistance connection at initial start that self solves through vibration.
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  #23  
Old 06-02-2017, 10:39 PM
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John ED Renstrom John ED Renstrom is offline
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The only way I know to test the slack in the change with a light is to.have the engine warm .set the timing on the mark. Print the engine off idle up around 1500or do the mark should advance as the rpm goes up with the mechanical advance and drop right back to were it was when you let go of it. Shut the car off and start it the mark should be right on if not the chain is warn. Now then if it jumped time like Paul hinted, this test would not tell you that only that the chain or gears were so loose the it would not hold time.

As in the case of my Oldsmobile the high torque starter for the 454 is no longer a across the counter thing. But if you use the low torque starter the problem is the hot start not the Cold. Drove me crazy till I got told I had the wrong starter on it.
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Old 06-05-2017, 06:12 PM
Richard Vyse Richard Vyse is offline
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Ok here's the deal. I just tried to start it with the coil wire off, no difference. I tried activating the headlights first, no difference. I tried starting on battery #1then battery #2, no difference. Tried starting on both batteries same ole same ole but per usual always starts. Drags for a turn then takes off. I've got a battery charger on it and will check in the morning. I'm not worried about it starting just thought it should crank and go instead of dragging.
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Old 06-05-2017, 11:15 PM
Paul Steinberg Paul Steinberg is offline
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How old are the batteries, and what is the condition of the battery cable terminal ends? Are they the lead terminals that you replace the original terminals with using 2 bolts that clamp the wire to the terminal?
If the engine jumped time, then the engine valves are not opening and closing in the proper sequence to the pistons. so removing the ignition coil wire might not prove anything. Some Cadillac engines used plastic coated timing gears, and eventually the plastic would flake off, causing a loose chain, which would lead to the chain jumping a tooth or two. You can try my method of checking the timing chain, or the method suggested by Walter Suiter.
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Old 06-06-2017, 01:13 AM
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Jumper cables try that one. Ground the engine to the negative posts on the battery
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Old 06-06-2017, 07:51 AM
Richard Vyse Richard Vyse is offline
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Originally Posted by Paul Steinberg View Post
How old are the batteries, and what is the condition of the battery cable terminal ends? Are they the lead terminals that you replace the original terminals with using 2 bolts that clamp the wire to the terminal?
If the engine jumped time, then the engine valves are not opening and closing in the proper sequence to the pistons. so removing the ignition coil wire might not prove anything. Some Cadillac engines used plastic coated timing gears, and eventually the plastic would flake off, causing a loose chain, which would lead to the chain jumping a tooth or two. You can try my method of checking the timing chain, or the method suggested by Walter Suiter.
Cables are the ones with the two bolts ends bolted on. Batteries are only a little over a year.
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  #28  
Old 06-06-2017, 07:52 AM
Richard Vyse Richard Vyse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Steinberg View Post
How old are the batteries, and what is the condition of the battery cable terminal ends? Are they the lead terminals that you replace the original terminals with using 2 bolts that clamp the wire to the terminal?
If the engine jumped time, then the engine valves are not opening and closing in the proper sequence to the pistons. so removing the ignition coil wire might not prove anything. Some Cadillac engines used plastic coated timing gears, and eventually the plastic would flake off, causing a loose chain, which would lead to the chain jumping a tooth or two. You can try my method of checking the timing chain, or the method suggested by Walter Suiter.
Cable ends are the ones you bolt on.

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Originally Posted by John ED Renstrom View Post
Jumper cables try that one. Ground the engine to the negative posts on the battery
I'll try that this morning.
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  #29  
Old 06-06-2017, 08:18 AM
Richard Vyse Richard Vyse is offline
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Ok then. I had a battery charger on battery #1 and when I went to start it this morning it cranked right up on just the one battery. Turned off and tried to start on battery #2 and it dragged. Switched to both batteries and took right off. So since t cranked right up on battery #1 with the charger on it I take it I may have weak batteries. I suppose that happens when they sit for so long in between use. I have a battery tickler on the motorcycle so perhaps I need to get one for the Lifeliner. Cheaper than replacing batteries.

Thanks for all the efforts and thoughts....
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  #30  
Old 06-06-2017, 09:28 AM
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Dump those cable ends that is your problem. They will distort after a short time and cause the cable to be loose. They are also a source of crosion in to the cables. If you can't get any one to put the right ends on down there send them up here I will do it for you.
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