Brakes and Brake Fluid '58 Cadillac

So... this Easter had a great surprise in store for me.

I took the 58 to my wife's parents house for dinner, the brakes were a little questionable. (This is only the 2nd time its been out since the last snow up here in PA)

While driving home, I lost my brakes, I had to swerve basically into oncoming traffic to avoid the car in front of me. Luckily my fellow drivers had some decent refexes and managed to stear clear. I managed to get the car home and parked, reverse brakes seemed to work a little better when I was backing it in.

Now, this is one of those learning things the hard way moments. I've never dealt with a car this old before. I called my dad about it when we got home and he said it might just be brake fluid. I haven't popped the hood yet to check, but was wondering if anyone has any suggestions as to any particular brand or type of brake fluid I should be buying.

I know, it sounds like I am crazy, but I learn by doing. Luckily noone was hurt during this lesson.

Thanks,
Rich
 
Brakes

So... this Easter had a great surprise in store for me.

I took the 58 to my wife's parents house for dinner, the brakes were a little questionable. (This is only the 2nd time its been out since the last snow up here in PA)

While driving home, I lost my brakes, I had to swerve basically into oncoming traffic to avoid the car in front of me. Luckily my fellow drivers had some decent refexes and managed to stear clear. I managed to get the car home and parked, reverse brakes seemed to work a little better when I was backing it in.

Now, this is one of those learning things the hard way moments. I've never dealt with a car this old before. I called my dad about it when we got home and he said it might just be brake fluid. I haven't popped the hood yet to check, but was wondering if anyone has any suggestions as to any particular brand or type of brake fluid I should be buying.

I know, it sounds like I am crazy, but I learn by doing. Luckily noone was hurt during this lesson.

Thanks,
Rich

Have the complete system looked at before driving it again. Just adding brake fluid is a band aid approach.
 
one check you can do at home is to refill the reservoir with the dot 3 fluid. pump them ditt you got brak. then hold the steering will low with a underhand grip engine running put as much pressure on the pedal as you can and see if you can push it to the floor. if it goes to the floor see which wheel has fluid running out or if it's a rusted brake line.

if you can't get it to pop then then the least you need to do is bleed the brakes before you take it anywhere.

a brake job is the cheapest thing you will do on the car.
 
one check you can do at home is to refill the reservoir with the dot 3 fluid. pump them ditt you got brak. then hold the steering will low with a underhand grip engine running put as much pressure on the pedal as you can and see if you can push it to the floor. if it goes to the floor see which wheel has fluid running out or if it's a rusted brake line.

if you can't get it to pop then then the least you need to do is bleed the brakes before you take it anywhere.

a brake job is the cheapest thing you will do on the car.

For the above test, If none of the wheel cylinders are leaking, your brake master cylinder is bad. easy to rebuild if you can get a kit.
 
The only way to know for certain if a wheel cylinder is leaking is to pull all 4 brake drums off, and check them for leaks. The fluid can be running down the inside of the brake backing plate, and not be noticed. Any car that has sat for more than a year, should have the entire braking system checked, and properly repaired before being put into service. I don't know how many times, I have said that a bad transmission or engine will leave you stranded at the side of the road, but bad brakes or steering, many times are an attraction for those car magnets that grow inside of trees and other stationary objects that cars collide with. Good brakes and steering are one of those things that no one ever thinks about, until it is too late. Unfortunately, for some people too late is defined as death. Don't gamble with your life, or anyone else's. Fix those brakes!!!
 
The 58 that Adam just got has no brakes. I took the cap off the master cylinder and found something never seen before. The fluid had turned to a sticky powder of sorts. Guess sitting for 50 years will do this?
 
The 58 Cadillac still had the tredilvac power brake master cylinder and brake booster ( same as used on the 52 to 56 Packards). This unit has a unique quality in that the seal between the master cylinder and the vacume booster can go bad and often does. When this happens the brake booster sucks the fluid out of the master cylinder. In the case of the Packards it ends up in the vacume reserve tank and NO BRAKES. Wheel cylinders are easy to check pull the wheel and brake drum off peel the rubber boot on the wheel cylinder back if its dry inside behind the rubber its OK fluid present time to rebuild or replace cylinder. Brake hoses inspect for cracks or chafing replace if either present. Check all lines for rust or wetness from seeping. One last comment PRO CARS are Heavy I have found over the years Bonded Brake Linings do not work as well as rivited linings the rivits and lack of glue holding the lining to the shoe provide better heat dissapation and less chance of brake fade. I have a good friend with a 55 Packard who just spent $2000.00 to convert his brakes to a modern duel master cylinder and power brake unit. He scared the wits out of himself with the fluid leaving the power brake unit as described above.
 
So you'd recommend getting the conversion done then and just calling it a day?

2 grand... ouchies. I supposed stopping the car is important. Was hoping to put that towards more asthetic things but oh well...
 
Just keep it all original, and renew all the parts. The car stopped in 1958 with stock brakes, and it will stop again in 2015 with stock brakes if you repair/replace all the old components. Newer technology isn't necessary for everyone, just those with deep pockets that make changes for the sake of change only. Your not going to be hot rodding the car, and the money would be better spent on other things. Paul
 
never any reason to do a conversion on a car you only drive occasionally. besides as everyone here that has done one knowes you change way more then brakes. if you don't have to rebuild the booster it isn't all that expensive. but it may be only a rusted line or split rubber hose. the rest of the system might be good. find out where the fluid went first then set on a course to repair that. if it's a rubber line change all 3 of them. took me about a year to get all 4 done on the suburban. did them one axle at a time . starting with the leaking one and ending with the front that needed new drums. in between we got the booster changed. you don't have to break the bank. do it in stages but set up a plan to do all that needs to be done
 
I did not mean to start a conversion debate. My friend has a beautiful 55 Packard and decided he was not going to fear his brakes, I have plenty of Packards that use this unit and I have no intention to convert any them. A rebuild of the tredilvac unit is simple and not costly. Kits are available from several vendors Kanters among them. If the 58 has a vacume reserve tank check it for having a large amount of brake fluid in it if so that seal is bad and a rebuild is in order. The way we drive our vintage vehicles high performance modern brakes are not needed. MY point based on years with the Packards is failure of that seal equals no brakes without warning. A 7000 pound coach with no brakes hitting a Camry in the back ain't pretty.
 
Unless you know when your brakes were completely rebuilt, then it is foolish to believe that they are good, even if they do stop the car. Brake failures don't usually give advance warning, so if your system is old, and still working, it warrants having it completely checked to make sure that everything is in perfect working order. Unless you are going to keep your car in the garage and never drive it, do it now before you have a failure or an accident. It is an important maintenance item that is overlooked by many people.
I won't name names, or point fingers, but at the International Meet in Ohio, a member was driving another members car when the brakes failed. I had suggested for a couple of years before that the owner have his brakes checked, but he always said "they stop the car, they are fine". Luckily, there was no collision involved, and the master cylinder was replaced before he drove the car again.
 
My dad came over last night and we put the brake fluid in and gave the brakes a work out. It looks like the rear brakes are leaking fluid. We could see the star pattern of wetness all over both the rear tires (which must have been from the previous weekend since it hasn't moved since nor no more than a few feet last night). They should be working well enough now for me to get it across the street to the garage.

I guess I will just go with the repair for now. Do I need to let them know about the Bonded Brake Linings vs. rivited linings?
 
Brakes

My dad came over last night and we put the brake fluid in and gave the brakes a work out. It looks like the rear brakes are leaking fluid. We could see the star pattern of wetness all over both the rear tires (which must have been from the previous weekend since it hasn't moved since nor no more than a few feet last night). They should be working well enough now for me to get it across the street to the garage.

I guess I will just go with the repair for now. Do I need to let them know about the Bonded Brake Linings vs. rivited linings?

I have used this company for any brake parts I have needed ,booster repair,shoe relining , master ,wheel cylinder rebuild and they can make DOT certified brake hoses. They have a brake shoe material it is only for bonded shoes but it has a better brake feel than a lot of newer brake materials. When they take they rear drums of make sure they have a good puller such as the one below .99% of the time the rear drum are on there good, if you try and get them off without a good puller you can do some serious damage to the drums and hubs.
 

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From the wear and hammer marks on that brake puller kit, it appears that you have given it quite a work out over the years. :D
 
My brakes on all my procars have all been rebuilt to original specs, and all brake well, including my 1939 LaSalle Eureka. Personally, I would never do a conversion to disks, although if done correctly I would not be opposed to it. I just see it as an unnecessary expense as my standard brakes work just fine.
 
vary typical of this set of years. they would do the front as they were easy and not do the rear. if you don't have a proper puller there must be a tool rental place that does, get it. never let a shop without it attempt to do your brakes.

now mind you you don't need it you can get them off with a big pry bar and hammer. that is of course if you want your drums t look like this
 

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