Help Identifying relay.....70 Superior Ambulance

James Fischer

PCS Member
I am assuming this is a relay,but does anyone have anymore info then that ??
Part number,maker,still available ??

The back says DRW422....I did a search but not much came up.......

Any help or suggestions GRATEFULLY accepted !!
:)
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You have two items pictured, the large round one is a solenoid, and the rectangular item a circuit breaker. Tell me what it controls, and I will tell you what the correct replacement part number will be. The way that it is presently wired, it is switching the neutral, which is quite unusual, unless the small black wire is going to ground by being attached to the mounting bolt. If this is the case, then the large black wire would be a positive(+) wire. It doesn't appear that there is a wire on the other terminal of the solenoid, so it is anyones guess what this solenoid was used for. I don't believe that this is an original part supplied by the body builder, because of the way that it is grounded. This is a major problem when trying to diagnose wiring when you don't have the complete picture. Multiple views are sometimes necessary to see the whole "picture". If I had to guess, I would say that this is a Cole Hersee continuous duty model 24059.

UPDATE:

DRW 422 is a Delco Remy part number 2351703, which supersedes part number 2257158, which supersedes part number 1114223 which supersedes part number 1114218
 
Paul,
Here are a few more pictures...
The big black wire goes to the other jucnction box with fuse(also mounted on fender)near headlights.....
The wires then seem to go to the headlights...I am thinking perhaps a wig wag or flashing on/off of headlights ??
I also do not get any high beams......???

ALSO the flasher on the side closest to the fender operates the "door ajar" light on the dash..and it works fine....

Only the small green wire is hot and it is coming from the switch,when I take it off the solenoid and put it direct onto the right side of the circuit breaker ...voila.....flashers work,all 4 corners light up and the beacon rotates.....when I put it back on the solenoid and turn on the rocker switch it ..clicks...and is hot.....but does not turn on flashers/lights/beacon....????



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I am going to do this in 3 separate posts, since you have 3 different things going on here... In this picture...
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you have a blue (or it might be green) wire that is going from a relay to a Cole Hersee circuit breaker. It then exits the circuit breaker and goes to the positive (+) small terminal on the solenoid. This positive (+) wire is what activates the magnetic field in the solenoid, and pulls the two contacts together that make the connection to the two large posts on the solenoid. Your solenoid is what is commonly known as a 4 post solenoid. The other small terminal is the negative (-) terminal, or ground terminal of the solenoid. When you put power to the positive terminal, and the negative terminal is grounded, it completes the circuit, and draws in the solenoid, making the connection of the two large terminals. Since there is only one large terminal that has a wire going to it, that solenoid is doing nothing within your system. To make sure that we are perfectly clear on which one this is, I will identify it as being the one next to the windshield washer bottle.
 
In this picture, I can clearly see that the solenoid is connected to what looks like a flasher box, that you describe as being a "junction" box located just behind the left headlight.

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Looking at this, all that I can assume is that the black wire going to the terminal next to the fuse, is getting power to if from somewhere in the front of the car, and then is transferring that power via the black wire to the large terminal on the solenoid. Both of these wires are positive (+) wire, or what might be called "hot" wires. This is where it gets really confusing, since the other side of the solenoid has no wires attached to it, so the solenoid isn't doing anything. It also appears to be a solid piece of copper wire, which wouldn't have been used by the body builder, since that is house wire, not automotive grade. I can tell this because of the fact that it is elevated and appears to be very stiff. This indicates that the person that installed this wire had no idea what they were doing. What also brings me to this conclusion is that there is a circuit breaker protecting the positive wire between the relay that is mounted on the fire wall and the solenoid. This should have been a fuse, not a circuit breaker, which would reset once it cooled. In my opinion, this is like having a lit match next to gasoline. It is a recipe for disaster. Presently, the circuit breaker is lying on the windshield washer bottle. In essence, you could remove the solenoid, and the associated wiring, since it isn't powering anything.

The black wire that has the yellow insulating ring at the end of the terminal is my next concern. Where does this wire go, and what is it hooked up to. Once that is determined, I might be able to further assist you. Above, I made the assumption that this is a hot wire, but I cannot be certain. It might be powering something else.

What you are calling a "junction" box, looks very much like a Dietz flasher box, and if it is, then the power comes into it on the black wire (with the yellow ring), and two of the other wires that are pictured, each would go to a light bulb somewhere on the car. The 3rd wire, I will assume is a ground, but without a better picture, and knowing where each of those wires go to, it can't be said for certain.
 
that one is a head scratcher. it's not superior but something some one may have cobbled up. the rocker is tripping the solenoid to power the relay. and they have a circet beaker on the trip wire. man I thought I had see cobbled up from superior. this takes it. so trace the wires out from the relay. were do they go? I'm betting some one has put in some aircraft landing light in the high beams and they power them this way. are the high beam lights a flat lens with out any fluting? what that is a standard after market headlight relay and a external grounded solenoid in series. why would you put two things that do the same function in line? like I keep saying the hardest part of one of these cars is repairing what some one else did. normal your would wire the relay so that the high beam wire would trip it and then power the landing lights thus keeping you from burning out the headlight switch with the over load. but if your lucky and that is what it is, maybe the harness for the high beam are still in place and you can put in the right lights plug them in and have them working as intended. toss all this stuff in the parts bin. one other thing the relay is good for would be to switch your driving lights with your high beams. then you did not have to hit two switches when you meet someone. but this looks like 6 pack engineering. you notice the relay is fused also to they have two safety devices in line also.
 
or is it going this way?? with out being there and probing with a test light you can't tell. but since the solenoid goes to the flasher I'm re guessing that the current flow is in this direction? still a wast of a 50 amp solenoid. one again were do the blue wires go?
 

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On the firewall, there appear to be two (2) relays. One has wires going to it, and the other appears to have none, or at least in this picture it doesn't. If this is the case, then you can take the one "dead" relay box off the fire wall. If it does have wires going to it, then you need to trace out where those wires go. Relays are like solenoids, except that they are lighter duty units.

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In the lower portion of this picture, you can see two (2) holes in the fender inner pan. This indicates that at one time, there was possibly a solenoid located there..
 
OK... I have this figured out. Remove the green wire that is connected to the relay that goes to the circuit breaker. Remove the wire from the circuit breaker to the solenoid. Remove the black solid copper wire that goes from the headlamp flasher to the large terminal on the solenoid. When you have completed this, you will have returned the lighting system to how it was originally designed.

The headlamp flasher is probably activated only when the headlamps are illuminated, and only on the high beams. When you depress the high beam switch, located in the drivers compartment, it will over ride the headlamp flasher and keep the high beams on continuously. When the low beams only are illuminated, the high beams will flash.
 
OK... I have this figured out. Remove the green wire that is connected to the relay that goes to the circuit breaker. Remove the wire from the circuit breaker to the solenoid. Remove the black solid copper wire that goes from the headlamp flasher to the large terminal on the solenoid. When you have completed this, you will have returned the lighting system to how it was originally designed.

The headlamp flasher is probably activated only when the headlamps are illuminated, and only on the high beams. When you depress the high beam switch, located in the drivers compartment, it will over ride the headlamp flasher and keep the high beams on continuously. When the low beams only are illuminated, the high beams will flash.

Okay....
will get on it tomorrow.....per our conversation,
just want to confirm the "small" green wire (hot) gets connected at the relay on firewall where the "large" green wire is removed...correct ??
Thank you again !!
 
There is a purple wire, and a green wire presently on the left relay that is attached to the firewall. You are going to leave the purple wire where it presently is, and remove the small green wire that goes to the circuit breaker. Remove the circuit breaker, and its associated wiring. You can leave the solenoid on the fender if you like, with no wiring to it. That way, you won't loose it. Then remove the solid copper wire that goes from the solenoid to the headlamp flasher mounted behind the left front headlamp. It should now be exactly how it was wired when it left the factory, unless someone changed additional wiring that you haven't posted. If you have good fuses in everything, and the switches are not defective, then everything should work. If not, send me a round trip ticket, and I will bring my tools and fix it for you. This offer expires once it starts to get warm on in Connecticut... :D
 
I was under the impression that the units on the fire wall one with three and one with 2 wires were flashers not relays. the two wire one is not in the confusing circuit. I have no Ida why they would have tried to power the flasher this way. but to me you take the switched wire off the solenoid and put it back on the batt of the flasher. then when you close the rocker it powers the flasher which may or may not be working. you then can remove everything from the headlight relay to the flasher. why the after market headlight relay was put on and what it is used for is still a mystery. but it is not a flasher. the whole porpoise of this solenoid was to when the rocker was closed put power to the flasher on the fire wall. why they though that the rocker needed all this protection is a mystery. can you answer what the blue wires out of the flashers go to?
 

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This is where the problem lies.. To me, the two units on the firewall I assumed were relays, but they could also be flashers, albeit, not what flashers normally look like. If either of us were there, then we could figure this out in about 5 minutes with a test lamp, and someone to work the switches. It is clear that there is a purple wire going to the relay / flasher, and I believe that is what is powering this. There is no doubt in my mind that the green wire (which appears to be blue in the picture)(James told me that it was green) was added later on, and that it eventually goes to what I believe is a Dietz flasher (James described this as a "junction" box) located just behind the left front headlamp. If you look at the pictures closely, you can see that this flasher has a wire going to it from the headlamp wire harness. This is why I identified it as being a headlamp flasher. This is one of those projects that you can only fix by trial and error method, and keep a written record of what you have changed, so you can put it back if necessary.

Update:

After talking to Ed, he said that the box behind the headlight is a aftermarket headlight relay. At this point, I am not certain what anything actually is, and until the units on the firewall are determined if they are flashers or relays, I don't believe that I can help with this any further.
 
This is where the problem lies.. To me, the two units on the firewall I assumed were relays, but they could also be flashers, albeit, not what flashers normally look like. If either of us were there, then we could figure this out in about 5 minutes with a test lamp, and someone to work the switches. It is clear that there is a purple wire going to the relay / flasher, and I believe that is what is powering this. There is no doubt in my mind that the green wire (which appears to be blue in the picture)(James told me that it was green) was added later on, and that it eventually goes to what I believe is a Dietz flasher (James described this as a "junction" box) located just behind the left front headlamp. If you look at the pictures closely, you can see that this flasher has a wire going to it from the headlamp wire harness. This is why I identified it as being a headlamp flasher. This is one of those projects that you can only fix by trial and error method, and keep a written record of what you have changed, so you can put it back if necessary.

Update:

After talking to Ed, he said that the box behind the headlight is a aftermarket headlight relay. At this point, I am not certain what anything actually is, and until the units on the firewall are determined if they are flashers or relays, I don't believe that I can help with this any further.

Okay,
I believe they are FLASHERS,sincve they both click when the turned on....as I mentioned the RIGHT side "flasher" (closest to fender) clicks when the "door open" light flashes on the dash....so that is what that ones job is.....

I will get out there in a bit and take some more pictures.....and remove what I need to remove.....
I am waiting for the temp to warm up its 41 degrees here...waaaay to cold....:( our overnight has been in the mid 20's !!!.......
 
Ok..a few pics before removing solenoid etc.....

SOLENOID REMOVED PRIOR TO REMOVING WIRES......
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BUNDLE OF WIRES THRU FIREWALL....
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CLOSE UP PRIOR TO REMOVING FLASHER.....
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FLASHER REMOVED.....
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Checked on the 2 BLUE wires...both go thru firewall....one goes to SWITCH panel and the other is in a maze under dash....covered with tape cant see exactly where it goes.....



Connected SMALL green wire to flasher along with purple wire.....

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SOLID COPPER WIRE REMOVED........No HOT on front connection......
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BUT..HOT on other side when headlights are on....
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When EMERGENCY lights are SWITCHED on....tunnels work as does beacon...and flasher box clicks.......

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You are making progress. Next thing is to see if you can figure out where the wires go that are on the relay that is behind the left headlamp.. (I mistakenly previously referred to this as flasher).
 
OK...

The headlamp flasher is probably activated only when the headlamps are illuminated, and only on the high beams. When you depress the high beam switch, located in the drivers compartment, it will over ride the headlamp flasher and keep the high beams on continuously. When the low beams only are illuminated, the high beams will flash.

UPDATE :
I went out tonight and turned on headlights....checks ok....
when switched to HIGH beam....NO lights at all......BUT..I hear a click sound when I depress high beam on floor....when depressed again the regular lights come back on......
I will have to check ..there may be something with the button on floor it seems loose...along with the relay behind the driver side lights.....ran out of time tonight.....but will keep at it.....
Thanks again Paul and Ed !!!!
 
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