Friends of the Professional Car Society - Official Website of the Professional Car Society, Inc.

Friends of the Professional Car Society - Official Website of the Professional Car Society, Inc. (http://www.professionalcarsociety.org/forums/index.php)
-   Technical Discussion Forum (http://www.professionalcarsociety.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=4)
-   -   Warm up transmission (http://www.professionalcarsociety.org/forums/showthread.php?t=20949)

Blake Sherwin 01-15-2018 05:20 PM

Warm up transmission
 
Maybe its just that I'm paranoid and dont have enough experience driving old cars, but after warming the engine up for 15-20 minutes I notice that it usually starts out really hard to get past 20 mph until I've driven it around the neighborhood a bit and "warmed up" the transmission.

Until I slowly cruise around a bit, it seems giving it too much throttle results in what I can only describe as it trying to choke out. It doesnt sound like its going to stall but the engine stops trying to turn and acts like its stuck. Until I back off the gas and push it again, then it will usually start moving. Once ive got things moving for a decent amount of time though it runs like a champ.

Originally I chalked it up to the engine still being too cold, but now that I think of it, it makes more sense that the trans isnt being warmed up until it moves.

Is this just normal for old cars or should I be concerned about my transmission?

Alot of this is new to me but im trying to learn.

Rick Franklin 01-15-2018 06:10 PM

check your fluid level

Blake Sherwin 01-15-2018 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Franklin (Post 841923352)
check your fluid level

Checked that over the weekend and it was full. Had all the trans leaks fixed a few weeks ago. All fluids are surprisingly up to the full level

Peter Grave 01-15-2018 06:20 PM

Chances are the choke (on carbuator) is stuck or not opening at the right rate. This will cause a bog Trans sounds fine You do not have to "warm" them up. PM your phone number I talk better than type. Had many 60s Cadillacs in the day bought a new one every year from 62 to 71.

Paul Steinberg 01-15-2018 06:23 PM

Couple things to check.
1. Make sure that the choke is working properly.
2. Transmission linkage and the switch on the carburetor is properly plugged into the wire harness.
4. Transmission linkage is not out of adjustment.
5. Did they check to see if the transmission vacuum modulator is not leaking, and that the rubber vacuum hose from the intake manifold to the vacuum modulator has been replaced. There are two 6" approx. rubber hoses that connect the vacuum modulator. One at the modulator itself, and the other at the end of the metal line that goes to the transmission, and joins at the carburetor or intake manifold. Vacuum leaks can cause you a lot of grief, but are relatively easy and inexpensive to repair.
6. Engine timing must be set exactly as it is explained in the FSM (factory shop manual). There are exact instructions on what vacuum lines need to be unplugged, and capped so they don't leak vacuum. If the instructions aren't followed exactly, the timing will not be set where it should be. Vacuum effects a lot of things on a car, and sometimes it is difficult to diagnose.

John ED Renstrom 01-15-2018 10:45 PM

jump in start the car as soon as it fires and is running drop it in gear and go. idling the car is very hard on it and not a good practice. you are problem just loading it up with raw gas. the transmission after 20 minuets of idling will be at normal operation temp.not necessary at all. now at 0 out they will be a little stiff
if they are sitting out side but it only takes a mile of two to have them warmed up. just take it easy off the start and go.

Danny Ryder 01-16-2018 09:55 AM

Sounds more like a choke issue or even choke pull off not working.

Blake Sherwin 01-17-2018 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Grave (Post 841923355)
Chances are the choke (on carbuator) is stuck or not opening at the right rate. This will cause a bog Trans sounds fine You do not have to "warm" them up. PM your phone number I talk better than type. Had many 60s Cadillacs in the day bought a new one every year from 62 to 71.

Will PM you, I have some time during lunch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Steinberg (Post 841923356)
Couple things to check.
Engine timing must be set exactly as it is explained in the FSM (factory shop manual).

I unfortunately dont have the manual, but I will look at the items you mentioned

Quote:

Originally Posted by John ED Renstrom (Post 841923368)
jump in start the car as soon as it fires and is running drop it in gear and go. idling the car is vary hard on it and not a good practice. you are problem just loading it up with raw gas. the transmission after 20 minuets of idling will be at normal operation temp.not necessary at all. now at 0 out they will be a little stiff
if they are sitting out side but it only takes a mile of two to have them warmed up. just take it easy off the start and go.

I have been warming up in park, i will try this and see if this is part of my problem or not. I appreciate all the input.

John ED Renstrom 01-17-2018 10:02 PM

the fluid cycles thew the radiator. as that is were the trans cooler is, as it warms up so will the transmission. plus it has direct contact to the engine block.

the standard trick was to let it fire and then pick up the speed enough to let the engine clear out the raw fuel.l you don't have to race the engine at a high rpm just pick up the speed till it smooths out and will drop back to the high idle and run smooth. then you should be good to go. if it bulks and stumbles when you but it in gear there may be problems with the choke. or in the settings of the engine. Pet maybe able to talk you threw the trouble shooting of things.

Blake Sherwin 01-26-2018 04:36 PM

I havent quite figured this out yet but im guessing it probably choke related. Previously it had only happened when I first start driving, but Wednesday I drove it 45 minutes from Tulsa to Owasso and a few times while steadily driving 40 or so it happened, engine kinda starts cutting and acting like its about to choke out.

The only way to get it to stop is to let off the gas completely then hit the throttle again on and off a few times until it clears up and starts running smooth again.

in my limited knowledge I wonder if its possible that somehow the choke flap is falling down and closing while the throttles down?

Aside from this its been driving pretty good, its just doing this every so often. When I have some spare time I may just eyeball the choke and see how freely the choke moves. My mother in law told me to spray some carb cleaner on it, but if it was a remanned carb I shouldnt need to do that i'd think. My mother also suggested I put a "heet" additive into the gas to prevent water buildup.

I have done neither yet

Paul Steinberg 01-26-2018 05:42 PM

Gasoline today has ethanol in it, so "HEET" isn't going to do anything. As for spraying the choke mechanism with carb cleaner, if the carburetor was rebuilt, it shouldn't need to be cleaned. To me, I would be questioning the person that did the carb rebuild as to why there is an issue. There is no way to justify the quality of someone else's work unless you have the ability to assess it in person. Having said that, I have seen lots of "hacks" that claim to know how to rebuild carburetors but know next to nothing about how a carburetor works, or what to look for when there is a problem. From memory, your car is a 1968, and that has a Rochester Quadrajet carburetor, which is extremely complicated/sophisticated, so rebuilding it correctly is best left to the person that rebuilds them all the time, not a "jack of all trades".

Blake Sherwin 01-26-2018 06:00 PM

It hasnt been rebuilt yet. I have the original in a box in the coach, they put in a remanned quadrajet. I'm probably going to give them a call. While at this point I dont want them messing with it more, they did say if there was a carb problem they would look at it no charge since they put it in

John ED Renstrom 01-26-2018 10:07 PM

the one thing with the q jet you got to watch is over tightening the air cleaner nut.. it will pull the center of the top up and cause choke problems. but that would be a start up issue. not a run problem. it could be a low vacuum condition that lets the power valve pull open. normal if they have the float adjusted to high you get the problem your talking about rounding a corner. gas will slop over into the the intake and flood it out.

easy check for a vacuum leak is with a small propane torch. with the car running at idle, just crack the valve on the torch and run it around the base of the crab and the fittings and intake. if it picks up RPM you found a leak. needless to say you don't light the torch.

rebuilds are a problem as they will use parts off a number of different carbs to get one out the door. one other thing you can do is swap, put the original one back on if the problem changes or goes away you know it is a carb problem.

Peter Grave 01-27-2018 11:38 AM

This is getting silly and costing money. My 68 Cadillac I bought new was a great car and I have had many 68s since including many Pro Cars this is not a troublesome year. The premo Carburator rebuilder is Larry Isgro Carburetors

1604 Argyle Rd,

Wantagh, NY 11793

(516) 783-1041 He as done my Packard Caribbean 2 4 barrels and others for me. Check his ratings on Google.

Paul Steinberg 01-27-2018 12:56 PM

For other carburetor rebuilders, please check the recommended vendors forum. There is one person in Arizona that specializes in rebuilding the Rochester Quadrajet carburetors and knows them so well that he can identify the carburetor by just looking at it. This is the type of master carburetor rebuilder that you want to use, especially, if your carburetor has missing or miss-matched parts.

Carburetors Unlimited
7942 W Gold Dust Ave
Ste 3,
Peoria, AZ 85345

(623) 388-0990

http://www.carburetorsunlimited.com/

Blake Sherwin 01-29-2018 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Grave (Post 841923557)
This is getting silly and costing money. My 68 Cadillac I bought new was a great car and I have had many 68s since including many Pro Cars this is not a troublesome year. The premo Carburator rebuilder is Larry Isgro Carburetors

1604 Argyle Rd,

Wantagh, NY 11793

(516) 783-1041 He as done my Packard Caribbean 2 4 barrels and others for me. Check his ratings on Google.

The reason im taking it back to the guys that installed this carburetor is because they will work on it free if its a carb issue. If they say its something else besides the carb then i will get a quote and walk out with my money for now. Cant really afford to throw money at it right now anyway. I figure as long as they will do carb work free I will let them take a free crack at it. If they figure it out and fix it, great. If they say I have another problem then at least I can take that info elsewhere.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Steinberg (Post 841923559)
For other carburetor rebuilders, please check the recommended vendors forum. There is one person in Arizona that specializes in rebuilding the Rochester Quadrajet carburetors and knows them so well that he can identify the carburetor by just looking at it. This is the type of master carburetor rebuilder that you want to use, especially, if your carburetor has missing or miss-matched parts.

Carburetors Unlimited
7942 W Gold Dust Ave
Ste 3,
Peoria, AZ 85345

(623) 388-0990

http://www.carburetorsunlimited.com/

Thanks, I will look into that. I do plan on getting the old one rebuilt.

Blake Sherwin 01-30-2018 10:51 AM

Took it back in this morning to take advantange of the carburetor warranty. If the problem is carb related it will be free of charge. If its anything else I may just grab an estimate and hopefully leave with more info than I had before

Blake Sherwin 01-30-2018 07:04 PM

Shop told me that they found the cause. They say i was running rich and my plugs were fouled. They said my auto choke is not working properly and that alot of old cars had auto chokes that didnt work well.

They recommended installing a manual choke, which they are going to give me an estimate for.

Im not sure on the manual choke. Why not fix the auto choke? In any case i cant afford anything at the moment, so i will at least get my quote. They are making adjustments to the carb though

Daniel Scully 01-30-2018 07:40 PM

68
 
Fix the auto choke , they worked fine when new and can work the same if repaired correctly. If you can get by , have them set the choke fully open. It will be harder to start cold but you might get by with a few extra pumps on the gas pedal to enrich for a cold start. Worst case is a shot of starting fluid with a inop choke. Or just let it sit until you can get the carb rebuilt correctly.

Blake Sherwin 01-30-2018 08:28 PM

Is there risk of damage if its driven with fouled plugs?

Daniel Scully 01-30-2018 10:21 PM

68
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blake Sherwin (Post 841923647)
Is there risk of damage if its driven with fouled plugs?

Either clean the plugs or just replace them. You can do no real damage with the choke stuck wide open other than it will be hard to start cold and take a little longer to reach operating temperature , stuck closed will do the damage.

Peter Grave 01-30-2018 11:54 PM

That shop if BS were electricity they would be a power house. That said 68 Rochester carburators were NOT noted for choke problems. Along with all others here I think choke is sticking due to something bent or gummed up. Best temporary solution have choke set open and just pump the blazes out of the gas peddle cold and it will start. Wait five minutes for it to warm up and all should be well till fixed. The manual choke from the 30s in not the thing to do.

John ED Renstrom 01-30-2018 11:55 PM

since the choke came on the carburetor, they should have set it when the installed it. don't go back there. you need to ask around or get you the shop manual off e-bay and read up on some of these things. they have good pictures and if you willing to learn mostly a step by step how to do it. I could show you but we are a little far apart.

Paul Steinberg 01-31-2018 01:00 AM

A sticking choke is a result of the air cleaner being over tightened, and it will warp the upper section of the carburetor. Best to have it professionally rebuilt, where they will know the proper procedure to repair the warping.

Blake Sherwin 01-31-2018 07:51 AM

Thanks for the comments. At this point the only reason i am at this place (Christian Brothers) is due to the carb warranty. Once i talk to them today i will first ask if they can fix the auto choke since i would imagine thats part of the carb, thus under warranty, otherwise i will ask them to set it open.

I will look for a manual too

Blake Sherwin 01-31-2018 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Steinberg (Post 841923660)
A sticking choke is a result of the air cleaner being over tightened, and it will warp the upper section of the carburetor. Best to have it professionally rebuilt, where they will know the proper procedure to repair the warping.

I plan to send it to carburetors unlimited in AZ if my taxes are kind to me

Blake Sherwin 01-31-2018 11:01 AM

Going to be printing a copy of this for later:

http://www.gmcmi.com/wp-content/uplo...ice-Manual.pdf

John ED Renstrom 01-31-2018 11:20 AM

You will find the shop manual much more handy. I would not go back there for any reasion. There are only 3 parts to the choke that move. My bet is they slapped the rebuilt carb on and ran it out. Now every time you go back it's you need this. Find some one you can trust. If you can't do it yourself,find a mechanic you can trust.

Blake Sherwin 01-31-2018 01:17 PM

Called the shop again. Said they have the choke open for me and the brushed the plugs so they are all firing, said they dont know how long, but they are good for now.

I asked if there was any reason the auto-choke couldnt be fixed since it was part of the carb which was under warranty. His answer to me was that we could replace it with another re-manufactured carb but it might be the same issue, and parts arent as readily available for quadrajets today.

Whether true or not I am picking it up today and will drive with an open choke and see how it fares. Assuming it is tuned right.

When I have the cash I will send the old carb to Carburetors Unlimited in AZ.

As for starting with the open choke in cold weather am I just going to need to either pump the gas more before start or use spray in the air cleaner while its cold?

Currently I usually pump about 4 in accessory before cranking, but I still usually have to give it alot of gas while cranking to get it going (this may have been partly because of the fouled plugs too i suspect). I also have to give it gas to keep it running while idle which those plugs may have contributed to that a bit as well.

Hoping it will be running alot smoother with this open choke once warmed up

Daniel Scully 01-31-2018 09:16 PM

68
 
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

I asked if there was any reason the auto-choke couldnt be fixed since it was part of the carb which was under warranty. His answer to me was that we could replace it with another re-manufactured carb but it might be the same issue, and parts arent as readily available for quadrajets today.
Well that is BS , if it is rebuilt it should work as new.

Blake Sherwin 01-31-2018 10:11 PM

Went to pick up the hearse tonight. They gave me the key, said they tied the choke off and it should start right up.

Started it. Idled a few minutes but it died as soon as i hit the gas. Tried several more times then it just wouldnt start. They came out and messed with it a minute and the guy that set the choke said "see? Its jot going to run with the choke open, demonstrating as he throttled it and it would die.

So firstly i was annoyed that they ziptied the choke open and didnt even bother to test drive it or make sure it runs.

Then went in and asked if someone could help me get the ziptie off to drive it. They just handed me a pair of scissors. Messed with it for 15 min, unable to cut it off with a little pair of scissors, before i went in and someone got some actual wire clippers to cut it off for me.

It IS running better now simply because they brushed off the plugs but im most certainly not going back.

Spark plugs are black so i will be replacing those. I researched and determimed fancy platinum or iridium plugs are a bad idea and will be getting copper ones, but can anyone tell me the proper plug gapping for the 68?

John ED Renstrom 01-31-2018 10:32 PM

Ok you can not worry about the plugs. they will clean off as soon as you can drive it without it flooding but the problem is not just the choke. it will not flood with the choke open. like I said put the old carburetor back on. I betting they did not put the tin plate back in and it has burnt threw the center of the gasket. it would then let exhaust gas go into the intake and case it to lean out and stall.

remember you had someone drive this car before you brought it, it ran fine for them. your problems started when you pulled into that shop.

Paul Steinberg 01-31-2018 11:10 PM

.035... thirty five thousands... Point gap is .016 or 30 degrees of dwell. Timing has to be set with the car in neutral, and the parking brake release vacuum line removed and plugged. Don't remember exactly, but I think that the timing is 8 degrees before TDC. (top dead center).

Blake Sherwin 02-01-2018 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Steinberg (Post 841923692)
.035... thirty five thousands... Point gap is .016 or 30 degrees of dwell. Timing has to be set with the car in neutral, and the parking brake release vacuum line removed and plugged. Don't remember exactly, but I think that the timing is 8 degrees before TDC. (top dead center).

Thanks, and im not going to trust that the previous owner put the correct plugs in it anyway, so im not going to compare it. I want to make sure I'm buying the recommended OEM plugs. Can anyone give me a suggestion. I googled spark plugs for a 68 cadillac engine and some sites tried to say I needed double platinum which I KNOW is grossly incorrect

Peter Grave 02-01-2018 11:40 AM

I would use whatever the recomended AC plug is or its interchange no need to get exotic, I also would leave plugs alone unless they foul out again. A recent go round with my wifes Audi A8 shows how this goes everywhere. Problem on recent 100 miles round trip car picked up a dead miss. My Snap On scanner will not talk to this Kraut car I call my godson (Foreign car nut) where do I take this? he tells me of shop that is "reasonable". We go next day less than 24 hours later the call comes all fixed $520.00 YIKES!!! The charge includes two new coil packs ($52.00 each) and Eight new spark plugs @ $20.78 each. Now lets get real here at home had my scanner worked the REAL story is there was a bad coil pack just like my Crown Vics get and that would have done the job for less than $52.00 due to trade discount. Trust me I am getting a scanner that will read kraut cars. One repair here will pay for the scanner.

Blake Sherwin 02-01-2018 04:38 PM

Got some ACDelco plugs during lunch today. I may take a look at one of my current plugs to see how they look and keep these in the coach. Shop made it sound like these plugs were barely firing. If it starts fouling again I will start replacing

John ED Renstrom 02-01-2018 09:25 PM

No you need to fix the reason they are fouling. Fouling is a result of another problem. From the discussion it's flooding. Fix that problem clean and regap the p!ugs and you will be good to go. Replacing the plugs now will most likly only result in the new ones soon fouling.

Now my stead fast rule when you have trouble like you are is to go back the the last thing you fixed before the problems started. You then correct what was done wrong then.

Blake Sherwin 02-05-2018 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John ED Renstrom (Post 841923713)
No you need to fix the reason they are fouling. Fouling is a result of another problem. From the discussion it's flooding. Fix that problem clean and regap the p!ugs and you will be good to go. Replacing the plugs now will most likly only result in the new ones soon fouling.

Now my stead fast rule when you have trouble like you are is to go back the the last thing you fixed before the problems started. You then correct what was done wrong then.

Your right, problem seems to have started with this "new" carburetor. I do have a spare set of plugs ready to go, but not installing yet. As soon as I can afford it I will send my old carb to be rebuilt. I think I have a vacuum leak now though. Drove it Sunday and its whistling loud from the engine, When its warm enough again I will see if I can find any broken hoses

John ED Renstrom 02-05-2018 11:06 AM

The biggest part of any tune up is fix the vacuum leaks. But if you heard it driving it's a big one and probily the source of your problems. Low vacuum will cause it to run rich.

Blake Sherwin 02-06-2018 05:19 PM

And now its whining when accelerating. Odd that all these problems started after getting it back from the shop. Still not going back there though


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:25 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2009 - 2018 Friends of the Professional Car Society