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Jim Staruk
02-18-2011, 06:36 PM
What would be the correct mechanical siren to mount on the roof of a 1975 Superior high-top ambulance? Thanks

Mike Burkhart - Deceased 1948 - 2016
02-18-2011, 06:48 PM
FEDERAL Q2B!!!:yankchain:

Russell Street
02-18-2011, 07:02 PM
The most common would be a "Q", next would be a "C" (with or without a light), maybe a B&M Super Chief.

Jon VanDermark
02-18-2011, 07:04 PM
Every body and their brother has a Q. Dare to be different! Get a B&M Super Chief.

http://www.siro-driftsirens.com/images/260_super_chief_cutout_BW_w_id.jpg

Above picture from Kevin's website. http://www.siro-driftsirens.com/

Ron Devies
02-18-2011, 10:58 PM
The sound of the Q and the B&M are great but the B&M is so distinctive. A very cool siren.

Robert Shepard
02-18-2011, 11:13 PM
The sound of the Q and the B&M are great but the B&M is so distinctive. A very cool siren.

You can say that again Ron! I love my Super Chief Siro-Drift.

Get an ear full here:

http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq_zkt7i-Ug&feature=related

Robert Shepard
02-18-2011, 11:15 PM
This one sounds great as well.


http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=W-vJSpy3ifA&feature=related

Dennis Svoboda
02-19-2011, 10:10 AM
Looks like there needs to be another vote for a Federal Q.

Bruce Oliphant
02-19-2011, 10:36 AM
Looks like there needs to be another vote for a Federal Q.

I wasn't aware that anyone except Federal made a siren! :yum:

Jim Staruk
02-19-2011, 12:04 PM
Uh Oh, 3 votes for Federal and 3 votes for B&M ..... I need some more opinions PLEASE!

Tim Prieur
02-19-2011, 12:39 PM
Got to go with a Q
:smileflagcan:

Robert Shepard
02-19-2011, 01:28 PM
Got to go with a Q
:smileflagcan:

Why? When you consider a B&M draws less than half the amps at peak power, and weighs half as much, is louder at 100 feet, and will last a lifetime?

Quality

All B&M siren components are designed to provide maximum effectiveness, efficiency, and longevity. We equip our sirens with only the finest bearings and other components. Our stators, rotor tips and covers are all made of stainless steel.

B&M siren clutches are the strongest and most free rolling in the industry. Our clutches are made from heat treated tool and gear steels. Our competitors use a 'drawn cup roller clutch', the housing of which is essentially stamped from a piece of sheet metal, with a plastic insert.



The manufacturing tolerances of B&M sirens are significant to their performance and efficiency. A big, loose siren is like a worn-out pump; a lot of wasted energy for similar output. One line of small sirens is plagued with failures due to being made too tight, among other problems.





One of our competitors does not even sell parts for their siren motors. They apparently expect their customers to pay for a whole new motor when the brushes or bearings need replacement. We maintain an inventory of every individual part that goes into our sirens, and almost never sell a complete replacement motor. It just isn't usually necessary. Our motors are made by us, here in the USA, not shipped in as complete units from China.

The typical well used, but well cared-for 40 year-old B&M siren that comes in for service needs only motor brushes, bearings, a good cleaning, and a few specialized factory procedures to return it to full factory performance. Unless it has been severely damaged, we can restore virtually any B&M siren, of any vintage, to its original factory performance. Please see the 'B&M Service' page.




Back


Ahead to... '...Too Loud!'






Warning: These sirens produce very loud sounds. Good judgment and suitable hearing protection must be properly utilized by personnel when testing sirens and by those involved in emergency response.

© 2011, B&M Siren Manufacturing Co.

Russell Street
02-19-2011, 01:43 PM
The only reason I listed Federal products first in my previous post is that they are predominantly what we've always had in this part of the country. Until the show "Emergency" I don't ever remember hearing a B & M siren. I always thought of them as being a "west coast" thing. To this day, I've still never actually seen a B & M in person.

I am very impressed with everything I've read about them though.

Robert Shepard
02-19-2011, 01:58 PM
The only reason I listed Federal products first in my previous post is that they are predominantly what we've always had in this part of the country. Until the show "Emergency" I don't ever remember hearing a B & M siren. I always thought of them as being a "west coast" thing. To this day, I've still never actually seen a B & M in person.

I am very impressed with everything I've read about them though.

If you look at Miller-Meteor brochures from the 60's and 70's, you will see that they offered the B&M Super Chief as one of the siren options. Kevin can tell you how many were sold.

Tim Prieur
02-19-2011, 03:07 PM
Robert, to echo Russells comment, it was unfortunately a one sided vote for me. I have never seen (or heard live) a B&M. Up here :smileflagcan: all that was seen in the 50's through 70's was Federal equipment. Whether it related to servicing or simply familiarity, it is the way it was. The B&M certainly have a great sleek appearance.
I will modify my vote and say either would be an excellent choice.

Richard Vyse
02-19-2011, 05:01 PM
Gotta go with the "Q". You can crank this thing up and come back in a week and it's still churning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBY-iXLNnjg&feature=related

Steven Prange
02-19-2011, 11:21 PM
Gotta go with the "Q". You can crank this thing up and come back in a week and it's still churning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBY-iXLNnjg&feature=related

That sounds great but I miss the sound of the Hall-Scott engine sound in the background!

Steve

Kevin O'Connell
02-20-2011, 07:33 AM
Gotta go with the "Q". You can crank this thing up and come back in a week and it's still churning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBY-iXLNnjg&feature=related

It may be spinning after three minutes, but thanks to sloppy fit parts, it's not making noise. Even at full wail, a Super Chief is quieter in the cab and louder at true operating distances.

You may want to rethink this, Richard. The owner of B&M has a right side speaker bracket for a Lifeliner/Criterion. You wouldn't want to offend him, would you? :pat:

Richard Vyse
02-20-2011, 08:00 AM
You may want to rethink this, Richard. The owner of B&M has a right side speaker bracket for a Lifeliner/Criterion. You wouldn't want to offend him, would you? :pat:

Right side we have but sure could use a left (over driver's side). I used a "Q" when running rig back in the 70's and recently just picked up a "Q2B" so I'm a bit partial to em.

:myopinion::sleep:

John Dorgan - Deceased - 1938 - 2012
02-20-2011, 02:08 PM
How about the Sterling model 30 or the MARS 10" Commander, perhaps even the Sireno ED-10? All of these are large good sounding sirens. I am particularly fond of the Sterling model 30. Of course, one must include the Federal C Class as well. What about the B&M CS-8?
As one can see, you are not limited to a choice between just two sirens.
John Dorgan

Jim Staruk
02-20-2011, 02:25 PM
How about the Sterling model 30 or the MARS 10" Commander, perhaps even the Sireno ED-10? All of these are large good sounding sirens. I am particularly fond of the Sterling model 30. Of course, one must include the Federal C Class as well. What about the B&M CS-8?
As one can see, you are not limited to a choice between just two sirens.
John Dorgan

Thanks John. But were all of these offered by Superior in 1975 though?

Kevin O'Connell
02-20-2011, 06:13 PM
Right side we have but sure could use a left (over driver's side). I used a "Q" when running rig back in the 70's and recently just picked up a "Q2B" so I'm a bit partial to em.

:myopinion::sleep:

Well, in that case go ahead and offend as much as you'd like. Attached to a nice nylon rope, the "Q" makes a darned good boat anchor- unless there's a lot of silt on the lake bottom. Then you have to cut the perfectly good rope to move on.

BTW, you DID make mention of needing a right side speaker bracket in another thread.

Kevin O'Connell
02-20-2011, 06:49 PM
Thanks John. But were all of these offered by Superior in 1975 though?

Sterling closed its doors in 1971. Most of what was left wound up in the hands of two people, with the majority going to Canon City, Colorado in late 1972. They tried to market vehicle sirens briefly in 1973 with no success. They decided to concentrate on stationary sirens and changed their name to Sentry Siren. So to answer the question, Sterling-no. Sireno-yes, several models. John, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe their 10" siren was known as the Jetstream at that time. Mars stopped producing sirens in 1973 when Oliver Borland shut the doors but resumed under Bob Wylie's ownership in 1983.

Checking the B&M logbooks, it doesn't look like Superior bought any CS8B's after 1961, although they certainly were available. For some reason, that model is still popular in Massachusetts. We're preparing one now for Sutphen, destined for Gardner, MA.

Something else to consider is that many dealers and fleet owners bought their cars without warning equipment. One such fleet here in the L.A. area was Southland Ambulance of Anaheim, CA. They would buy hightop C/B Oldsmobiles with tunnel lights only. When the new car arrived its first stop was a local body shop to have a siren mounting pad fabricated on the right fender. They would then pull the Super Chief and 184 beacon from the retiring unit and put them on the new car. Using that thinking, it would be a hoot to see a 1975 Superior with a Sterling Big Chief!

Richard Vyse
02-20-2011, 08:21 PM
Well, in that case go ahead and offend as much as you'd like. Attached to a nice nylon rope, the "Q" makes a darned good boat anchor- unless there's a lot of silt on the lake bottom. Then you have to cut the perfectly good rope to move on.

BTW, you DID make mention of needing a right side speaker bracket in another thread.

I needed them when I had the Criterion and was going to mount a couple speakers up there. No need now. TKS

Russell Dalziel
02-20-2011, 10:20 PM
The only reason I listed Federal products first in my previous post is that they are predominantly what we've always had in this part of the country. Until the show "Emergency" I don't ever remember hearing a B & M siren. I always thought of them as being a "west coast" thing. To this day, I've still never actually seen a B & M in person.

I am very impressed with everything I've read about them though.

There are 2 B & M's on Rescue trucks in Metro Detroit as We speak. There is an Owner of an Ambulance company that Kept all of the B & M's off of their old vehicles and does not let anyone Near them

Russ

Russell Street
02-22-2011, 05:36 PM
There are 2 B & M's on Rescue trucks in Metro Detroit as We speak. There is an Owner of an Ambulance company that Kept all of the B & M's off of their old vehicles and does not let anyone Near them

Russ

Could you please tell me whose Rescue trucks have them, I'll be looking for them. The Owner who kept all the B & M's wouldn't happen to be the guy who owned the "old" Superior Ambulance back in the late 60's and early 70's would it??? Reddish/Orange Cadillac low top rides (maybe S & S). Not to make a fibber out of myself but I think they may have had B & M's. How close am I???

Steve Loftin
02-22-2011, 07:41 PM
There is an Owner of an Ambulance company that Kept all of the B & M's off of their old vehicles and does not let anyone Near them


Would this be the old Superior Ambulance Service in Wyandotte? I remember seeing several of their S&S/Cadillacs with Super Chief whistles.

Hud Kellogg
02-22-2011, 07:55 PM
You can say that again Ron! I love my Super Chief Siro-Drift.

Get an ear full here:

http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq_zkt7i-Ug&feature=related
now THATS service !

Kevin O'Connell
02-23-2011, 07:03 AM
That video is from PCS member Cliff Bergum.

Russell Street
02-23-2011, 06:44 PM
Would this be the old Superior Ambulance Service in Wyandotte? I remember seeing several of their S&S/Cadillacs with Super Chief whistles.

That's the one I'm talking about. Nice to know my memory still has a little something going for it.

Bill Leverett
02-23-2011, 08:52 PM
Hi Jim...much like alot of things procar related, in the end I'd suggest you get what you like best. YouTube is great for hearing alot of what is out there. Even better to listen to them in person to actually "feel" the siren. As you've read, there are many views of what is "the best" siren and all have merit.

So choose the siren that you like the sound of best. I happen to prefer the sound of a double-tone siren so that's what I'll be putting on my Lifeliner along with an Federal Interceptor electronic siren. I managed to find a 6 volt double-tone with a Propello-Ray a few years back and that'll go on my '53 Pontiac.

Tim Prieur
02-24-2011, 12:22 AM
Jim: If I could echo Bills comment. There are a lot of great options available. Cliff B. has posted on u-tube his collection. Check out a 66G. If it looks "too small" on the roof, put it under hood. Ah the fun of rebuilding these cars.

Jim Staruk
02-24-2011, 09:36 AM
I appreciate everyone's opinions on sirens. I will take each view into consideration. As it was back in 1975, I understand that the final decision of what siren adorns my roof will be up to me. To make this restoration as authentic as possible, I specifically placed this question into the “Period Correct” forum in order to prevent me from purchasing and mounting a siren that wasn’t even available back then. I am under the assumption that all of the sirens mentioned within this thread were available in 1975?

Jon VanDermark
02-24-2011, 12:46 PM
Jim,

Yes. They all were.

Jon

Russell Dalziel
02-24-2011, 09:51 PM
Could you please tell me whose Rescue trucks have them, I'll be looking for them. The Owner who kept all the B & M's wouldn't happen to be the guy who owned the "old" Superior Ambulance back in the late 60's and early 70's would it??? Reddish/Orange Cadillac low top rides (maybe S & S). Not to make a fibber out of myself but I think they may have had B & M's. How close am I???

The Rescue Trucks are owned by the Dearborn Heights Fire dept.
The Guy with all of the Super chief's owns Universal Ambulance
Superior was gone by the time I started work on the eastside of the State
But I have seen Pics of their Vehicles and I Believe You are right


Russ

Anthony J. Rzucidlo
02-25-2011, 01:40 AM
Dearborn Heights Fire (Michigan) has two rescues that have a B&M siren on them as well as electronic siren. The units in question are both 2009 International/Lifelines.

Cliff Bergum
01-09-2012, 01:50 AM
Thanks Kevin and Tim for the "plug"!! I'm glad one of my SC vid's has made it to the PCS site :) If anyone wants to see more just search my youtube user name. 911Caddy.
The SC in the video if I recall correctly is from 1954.. (except for the siren front which was very damaged and replaced with modern stainless)
Kevin had the info on the siren still? Wow! I seem to recall him saying it was originally mounted on an Oldsmobile Ambulance.
Love those Super Chiefs! But, if I didn't have one.. I'd go with a nicely broken in Sterling #30. But, it would have to be the version with the all chrome front similar to the "Chief"!

Dave Richards
01-09-2012, 01:53 PM
Would this be the old Superior Ambulance Service in Wyandotte? I remember seeing several of their S&S/Cadillacs with Super Chief whistles.

Here is a nice shot, made early in 1970 I believe, depicting several of the Superior Ambulance Service (Wyandotte, MI) S&S Cadillacs Steve referred to ... indeed adorned with "Super Chief whistles."

http://home.comcast.net/~drichards247780MI/SUPERIOR%20AMB%20Moving%20Old%20Beyer%20Hosp.jpg

Dave Richards
01-09-2012, 02:52 PM
How about... the MARS 10" Commander... you are not limited to a choice between just two sirens.

For reference, here are some comparison shots depicting the Federal Q2B and the "MARS 10" Commander," ... a siren which John D mentioned in his earlier post.

http://home.comcast.net/~drichards247780mi/MARS%20Commander%20MST-B%20Siren2web.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~drichards247780mi/Federal%20Q%20Mars%20Commander%204%20WEB.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~drichards247780mi/Federal%20Q%20Mars%20Commander%202%20WEB.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~drichards247780mi/Federal%20Q%20Mars%20Commander%207%20WEB.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~drichards247780mi/Federal%20Q%20Mars%20Commander%203%20WEB.jpg

Russell Street
01-10-2012, 05:05 PM
Here is a nice shot, made early in 1970 I believe, depicting several of the Superior Ambulance Service (Wyandotte, MI) S&S Cadillacs Steve referred to ... indeed adorned with "Super Chief whistles."

http://home.comcast.net/~drichards247780MI/SUPERIOR%20AMB%20Moving%20Old%20Beyer%20Hosp.jpg

Thanks much Dave. Man, those coaches were beautiful!! Funny thing is, I used to run up in that area (downriver and west suburbs of Detroit) 5 nights a week and NEVER once did I ever see one of them running "hot". Used to see Detroit Squad 7 multiple times per night in different places.

Was that picture taken at the old Wayne County Hospital in Dearborn per chance???

Memories, such sweet things they are.

Dave Richards
01-10-2012, 09:20 PM
Man, those coaches were beautiful!! ... Was that picture taken at the old Wayne County Hospital in Dearborn per chance???

http://home.comcast.net/~drichards247780MI/SUPERIOR%20AMB%20Moving%20Old%20Beyer%20Hosp.jpg

That photo, shared with me by a friend and former management team member of the EMS company I once owned, was made in Ypsilanti, Michigan... during the April 1970 move of patients from the old Beyer Memorial Hospital location there to the (then) newly-built facility, which was subsequently closed - one day short of 30 years later - on April 10, 2000.