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Doug Watson
09-24-2010, 05:05 PM
My 64 Superior combo has this box thing on the dash. Lots of switches. I don't know what all I would need to work. Any ideas? Also, on the attendent cabinet there are a couple switch things for blowers. What would I have to have working up front to make the back work? Air/heat works up front. Thanks for any help.

Russell Street
09-24-2010, 09:19 PM
First off......what a cobbler's nightmare. Lots of extra switches. In the first photo from left to right, push button is probably the siren brake (indicates the car had/has a coaster siren), second would be a 3 position switch for horn/siren, next would most likely be for the Beacon Ray, next could be for any auxillary lights, after that....who knows. Best bet would be to get the car running and start trying all of them and see what happens.

The 3 little things on the front of the panel are "pilot lights" indicating something or other is "running".

The switches in the rear run the heat/ac, and dome lights. One of the extra switches up front may "override" the rear ones.

Good luck!

Steve Lichtman
09-24-2010, 10:14 PM
Doug, I concur with Russell on some of that.

First, the siren isn't in the box, just so you know. The first push-button, as Russell said, was a brake for the mechanical siren (which would have been under the hood). That stops the siren from rotating, stopping the sound. The second would probably have been the "siren/horn" switch, which could have been a two-position switch, either siren or horn. This threw a relay which would allow you to use the horn button either for the horn or to run the siren. You would have had a switch for the beacon, one for the roof flashers that it looks like you may have had, and then.... I'd guess one was for the rear dome light.

The lights on the front may be "patient condition" lights. You may have switches in the back which would turn on a green, yellow, or red light on the dash, for the attendant to indicate to the driver how the patient was doing and/or whether he needed to put more foot into the gas! (I've never figured out why these lights were considered so important, why the attendant couldn't just yell, "Hey, Fred, step on it!")

The top of the switch box has lighted legends, essentially back-lit labels that show what each switch is for. It looks like those have been rubbed off but perhaps if you look closely or from the back, you can read what they are.

I've never seen switches on the side of the box, so I don't know why those are there.

Doug Watson
09-24-2010, 10:32 PM
The siren box "screen" reads as follows. It's backlit.

Siren Siren Roof Rear Dome
Brake Horn Light Heater Light

one of the side switches reads "panel lights"

The photos aren't good quality, but the backlit screen is in very good condition.

Paul Steinberg
09-24-2010, 11:11 PM
..................The second would probably have been the "siren/horn" switch, which could have been a two-position switch, either siren or horn. This threw a relay which would allow you to use the horn button either for the horn or to run the siren. ................................

There is no relay operation by the switch. The switch just breaks the connection in the horn grounding circuit, and routes that ground to either the horn relay to activate the horns, or the siren relay to power the siren motor. :thumbsup:

Scott Crittenden
09-25-2010, 08:58 AM
There is no relay operation by the switch. The switch just breaks the connection in the horn grounding circuit, and routes that ground to either the horn relay to activate the horns, or the siren relay to power the siren motor. :thumbsup:

There was more than one way they did it, some had a two position switch that the switch made the change, some had a regular on/off switch that controlled a relay that did the actual change.

Paul Steinberg
09-25-2010, 10:12 AM
There was more than one way they did it, some had a two position switch that the switch made the change, some had a regular on/off switch that controlled a relay that did the actual change.

Interesting concept... I sure would love to know why in 1964, they would use a switch to control relay to control a single wire that controls another relay when a single switch would do the same thing with less wiring. Can you supply me with a wiring schematic of how this was acomplished?
With todays electronics, I can see them doing this, but not 45 years ago when simplicity was the method of the day.

Scott Crittenden
09-25-2010, 11:17 PM
There are relays that act like an on/on switch. One set of contacts work when there is no power going to the relay, the other make contact when power is applied to the relay. This would cut down on the number of wires going into the switch box, allow one to mount the relay in the engine compartment where both the horn and siren are reducing total wire run. It would also mean you would use a regular on/off switch. It might not be simpler, but it could potentially be easier to install.

Kevin O'Connell
09-26-2010, 05:07 PM
With all due respect, Scott, I have to cite my membership in the Cranky Old Farts Club and side with Paul. While most manufacturers today use electronic control systems (That !@#$%^&* Horton Retardo-Plex comes to mind) Superior never used anything more complex than a single pole, double throw, two position switch for horn/siren selection. Typically a Cole Hersee #5584 toggle switch, Later a CH 56002-01 rocker switch.

I hate it when old people wax nostalgic, but I DO miss the days when you could change electrical functions by relocating terminals as opposed to having to buy and program a new PROM.

Scott Crittenden
09-26-2010, 09:36 PM
I have to cite my membership in the Cranky Old Farts Club .

Thank you Kevin admission is the first step. ;)

I agree the car in question more than likely had a two position switch that selected which relay received a ground signal from the horn ring. The method I described is most likely a few years newer.

I also don't believe it left Lima with that many switches, but I could be wrong. I don't profess to be the end all be all repository of pro-car knowledge.

John ED Renstrom
09-26-2010, 10:18 PM
I don't profess to be the end all be all repository of pro-car knowledge.

think this goes for the lot of us. but a good lively discussion gets a lot in information tossed out fast. as for the number of switches I think some drill happy man did get all over that one. vary few combos had the add on box most only a few in a panel added were the radio was. here is the switch panel in the 63 of Brendon's I did not throw the switch to light it up. but some of them you can read. the far end one shuts the panel off. the panel light is on the side same as this other.

Steve Loftin
09-26-2010, 10:28 PM
think this goes for the lot of us. but a good lively discussion gets a lot in information tossed out fast. as for the number of switches I think some drill happy man did get all over that one. vary few combos had the add on box most only a few in a panel added were the radio was. here is the switch panel in the 63 of Brendon's I did not throw the switch to light it up. but some of them you can read. the far end one shuts the panel off. the panel light is on the side same as this other.

That style switch panel was standard equipment on Superior combinations from 1959 through 1964.

John ED Renstrom
09-26-2010, 10:47 PM
that's what I get for working on the newer stuff.

Doug Watson
09-27-2010, 02:58 PM
With all the information given by you guys, question is, where/who would I go to and figure this out? Boeing and Cessna Aircraft are located here, so would I take it to a hangar and have electrical engineers sort it out? Seriously, I don't want a wanna be to touch it! I guess I'd buy one of you guys a ticket to wonderful Wichita, KS and pay you an hourly rate. I'm serious. I have toooooo much invested $$ and emotionally in this project to mess it up.

Paul Steinberg
09-27-2010, 05:52 PM
I'm available on an hourly basis plus travel time... Just have to make it at a time of the year when it isn't too hot or too cold............. or you could just bring the car to Ohio next summer, and "the team" will work on it while everyone else stands around looking. We can call this "Electrical Wiring 101". We work for beer and pizza... :YesNo: Just need to know in advance so we have all the correct tools.

Steve Loftin
09-27-2010, 06:58 PM
With all the information given by you guys, question is, where/who would I go to and figure this out? Boeing and Cessna Aircraft are located here, so would I take it to a hangar and have electrical engineers sort it out? Seriously, I don't want a wanna be to touch it! I guess I'd buy one of you guys a ticket to wonderful Wichita, KS and pay you an hourly rate. I'm serious. I have toooooo much invested $$ and emotionally in this project to mess it up.

Feel free to call me about this; sell number sent via PM. I'll be glad to go over the switch panels (as well as the rest of the car) with you.

John ED Renstrom
09-27-2010, 09:33 PM
your not all that far away drive up for the weekend and and we'll look at it.

Kenn Evans II
09-29-2010, 12:03 AM
Hi Doug, your photo's and info that you are after is great, I just got the same identical vehicle just in Landeau and thanks for asking the questions. It is exciting to see another 64 getting saved.

Doug Watson
09-29-2010, 01:54 AM
send me your contact information. That is really awesome!

Steve Loftin
10-03-2010, 10:56 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1963-1964-Cadillac-Superior-Hearse-Ambulance-Parts-Book-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem5d2af1741dQQitemZ40015 2425501QQptZMotorsQ5fManualsQ5fLiterature

Paul Steinberg
10-04-2010, 09:28 AM
What is one of these? Some people view the site from work, where they can't get to ebay...

Steve Loftin
10-04-2010, 10:34 AM
What is one of these? Some people view the site from work, where they can't get to ebay...

It is a reproduction Superior parts and service manual for his car.