1999 Cadillac Sedan

[Jonathan Murphy]

I know that this is possibly off topic (and am hoping for the moderators indulgence), but trusting the members here, I am looking at a 1999 Cadillac Deville and have a few questions.

First the background: the owners are the second owners and the car has 100k miles on it. They bought it years ago with 50k on it. When I test drove it, the drivers side air would not work. The guy selling it (not the owner) said that it was a vaccum line causing the problem and that it would be fixed. The passenger side mirror does not work and the seats didn't seem to want to do what I wanted them to do. (I attribute that to possibly operator error)Other than that, the car appeared fine as there are no paint/body issues.


Now the questions: Does any one here or has any one here ever owned this type of car? If so, what can I expect with regards to any potential mechanical issues? Are you or were you satisfied with it? While I have not had my mechanic go over it, he did say that on this model, things start to break down at around 100k. I am wondering if he is just shooting me a line.

And, for what it is worth, if I buy it, I will be selling my 95 Honda with 218K miles on it.

Any help and advice is greatly appreciated.

[Charles E Snyder, II]

Jonathan,

First and foremost, welcome to the site!

I have never owned a 1999 or close Cadillac, so I can not help you on that issue, but I am sure that if you give it a couple of days that someone here will chime in with some advice. My era of Cadillac expertise is the early 1970s if you want to call it expertise.

Good luck with this car if you end up purchasing it. Let us know how the purchase turns out.

Chuck

[Jonathan Murphy]

Thanks Charles. What I really want is a 75 or 76 Sedan de Ville. But, I guess I will have to do with the '99 if I opt to make an offer on it. Until my mechanic looks it over, I'm not going to do anything.

My previous experience with a Cadillac was a 1961 Series 63 Six-window sedan. Awesome car! But, I had to sell it when my firstborn came along (13 years ago) and have been Cadillac free ever since.

[John ED Renstrom]

I wish I was. but my only question is why. got to be more lower mileage cars out there. I have seen this model with 240G on them they still ran like a top. but there ain't nothing more doge then a old caddy. when things don't work if you can't make repairs your self you either live with them not working or pay out the nose.

[Gene Rafferty]

You can easily outrun the value of the car with repairs to the northstar. The mechanic is right. The head gaskets will have to be replaced at around 100k for about 3500 dollars and usually the water pump goes for about 1400 dollars. I would skip any cadillac with the northstar.

[Daniel Scully]

Keep the Honda ,or if you want a late model Caddy go with a 93-96 Fleetwood these are rear wheel drive and pretty bullet proof. The FWD drive cars are labor intensive. I have a big 93 for sale picture below. :D

[Tony Karsnia]

My two cents worth is that you pass on this one. If you want a really nice Cadillac sedan, seek out a 1994-96 Fleetwood (RWD.) They are a much "tougher" car and you will be better served by the LT-1 powrplant.

[Terry Lange]

Jonathan:

You will find a wealth of information on this type of vehicle on the discussion forums of either CadillacOwners.com or CaddyInfo.com. There are regulars on both of these sites who will advise you on how to "pull the codes" on the car you are looking at, (a very easy procedure) to determine what underlying problems might exist. As Gene pointed out, the weak area in a poorly maintained Northstar is the head gasket issue, but if there is a documented history of the cooling system being serviced on a regular basis, these motors will run forever with few problems. Having said that, if you purchase a 10 year old Caddy and don't have the ability or inclination to do some of the maintenance and repairs yourself, it can put you in the hole pretty quick. I have owned a '97 DeVille (same as the '99) and currently have an '01 DTS, both with the Northstar motor. I sold the '97 with about 165K on it, and now have over 140K on the 01. The motors have been great in both of them, it is the other stuff that can add up pretty fast, quickly leaving you with more money tied up in the car than what it is worth. If you take your Caddy to the "stealership" for service, you will pay the price while they throw parts at it until they find the problem. If you are handy with a shop manual and a set of tools, or find a good independent mechanic, these can be a very enjoyable car to own.

Terry

[Mike Stevens]

I drive a 2000 Cadillac Deville stretch limo. It has 199k on the odometer. It runs great. Its a wonderful car. Handles well and rides smooth. Gets about 17 miles to the gallon on the road. I think it should do better. All the people I have talked to tell me that Northstars leak oil and this one does. It is an expensive fix so it is easier to just ad oil when needed. Nothing is cheap on a northstar. An A/C compressor will run about $1700. A trans rebuild will be in the neighborhood of $3500. A new radiator will leave your check book about $650 lighter. GM has already said they are doing away with the Northstar sometime in 2010. Another reason to look for something with the more conventional type engine. A nice Fleetwood from 91 to 95 will get you a rear wheel drive car with plenty of power and comfort. I know several people with these cars (6 door versions from funeral homes) and they get well over 20 mpg. Like another post here I think there are more lower mileage cars out there for the same money. Anything with front wheel drive is not my favorite.
Mike

[Danny Ryder]

I have had several of these and none were any good. They all seem to use oil and water (hard to say which they use the most of). All I had started giving issues at about 60K. I would not recommend buying one of these over anything else caddy offers unless it was a 4100. :mad:

[Jonathan Murphy]

Thanks to all who posted and offered advice. I think I will let this one pass. As it is often said, better the devil you know. I certainly would not want to buy someone elses troubles.

The looked at this car mainly because of the low (at least low to me) mileage and also due to the favorable comments on the Kelly Blue Book review page. I, at one time, also had my eye on a 2003 DTS, but all the reviews on Kelly's website said that they were dogs, so I didn't even explore it.

Most of the 93-96 Fleetwoods in this area are pretty beat up. I would love to have one, but I am not interested in going out of state to find a decent one. I would rather stay local when it comes to car shopping.

I'm sure something else will come along soon. Or maybe I will just drive the Honda until the wheels fall off!

[Paul Steinberg]

Thanks to all who posted and offered advice. I think I will let this one pass. As it is often said, better the devil you know. I certainly would not want to buy someone elses troubles.

The looked at this car mainly because of the low (at least low to me) mileage and also due to the favorable comments on the Kelly Blue Book review page. I, at one time, also had my eye on a 2003 DTS, but all the reviews on Kelly's website said that they were dogs, so I didn't even explore it.

Most of the 93-96 Fleetwoods in this area are pretty beat up. I would love to have one, but I am not interested in going out of state to find a decent one. I would rather stay local when it comes to car shopping.

I'm sure something else will come along soon. Or maybe I will just drive the Honda until the wheels fall off!

I have a feeling that the Honda is going to be the last car that you will ever need. Honda's are todays modern day Timex watch.. :D

[John Royark JR]

I would not recommend buying one of these over anything else caddy offers unless it was a 4100. :mad:


Hey now...
I have had 4100s before.
My current one has 175,000 miles (bought it with 73,000) and still runs like new, only issues so far is had to replace water pump, and alternator.

[Danny Ryder]

Hey now...
I have had 4100s before.
My current one has 175,000 miles (bought it with 73,000) and still runs like new, only issues so far is had to replace water pump, and alternator.

I have actually had better luck with the 4100 than the north star too but they both have their issues.

[John ED Renstrom]

but which one the fwd or the rwd they were that same lable but different engines

[John Royark JR]

but which one the fwd or the rwd they were that same lable but different engines

I have had both. The one with 175,000 I mentioned earlier is a FWD. It is the 85 Superior you saw in Denver.

[John ED Renstrom]

the 4100 in the rwd was from what I have been told is the problem child. the fwd engine is all different and really a lot better one. that is the one I have in the 86 limo.

[Bill Marcy]

I have had some experience with Northstars too, they are expensive! But, there aren't too many cars today that aren't. Did you know that there are lots of cars that can cost $3-$ thousand dollars to rebuild the trans, like a Honda Odyssey? A Mercedes ML trans goes for 6 thousand to rebuild? And I have heard that an Audi A-8 trans can set you back 8 grand? Some cars can cost a grand for a starter? And this craziness goes on and on. Most cars are far too complicated to fix when they are 8, or 10 years old. The repairs can be way more than the value!

I do know lots of people who have had great service from their Northstars and I'm talking big miles! But personally, I am afraid of any car that costs so much to repair. I am just as likely to own a loaded Impala, Bonneville, Park Ave, Town Car, Grand Marquis as an old Northstar car. You can get the same features with much lower maintenance.

Of course, I agree with Tony about the Fleetwood Broughams, they are fabulous cars and have bullet-proof drivetrains.

For what it is worth, any ten year old car will probably have at least 100K miles, although there are many exceptions. You should buy what you like, because when it's all said and done, you have to live with it. Good luck!

[Jonathan Murphy]

Well, the guy that is selling the car came by the office today wanting to make a deal. He stated that he would take my car in trade and only ask $2k for the Cadillac. I told him that, based on what I had I had been told by others (thanks everyone), it was in my best interest to pass. I also told him that it would be foolish for me to buy a car that would end up costing me more to fix than to buy.

Now that I have moved away from that one, I have also started looking at both a 2001 Catera and a 2002 Mitsubishi Galant. Both are close by and are in my price range. So far the Galant is looking better, but it has about 25k more miles than the Catera. Any further advice??

Thanks

[Paul Steinberg]

Well, the guy that is selling the car came by the office today wanting to make a deal. He stated that he would take my car in trade and only ask $2k for the Cadillac. I told him that, based on what I had I had been told by others (thanks everyone), it was in my best interest to pass. I also told him that it would be foolish for me to buy a car that would end up costing me more to fix than to buy.

Now that I have moved away from that one, I have also started looking at both a 2001 Catera and a 2002 Mitsubishi Galant. Both are close by and are in my price range. So far the Galant is looking better, but it has about 25k more miles than the Catera. Any further advice??

Thanks

Without knowing the mileage of the Catera, there is no way to make a educated assessment of comparison. Also, the cost is another issue that has to be tossed into this equation. ;)

[Jonathan Murphy]

The Catera

Milage: 75k
Cost: $4,800


The Galant

Milage: 106K
Cost: $4,495

From what I have read on Edmunds, looks like it should be the Galant

[Josh Horton]

I had a friend that worked as a mechanic at a Chevrolet dealership. He said the Catera had a timing belt problem as in it would destroy the engine at 100,000 miles. Here is a Catera forum talking about it, http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-forum/t-83283.html
I can't vouch for the Galant, as I have only been around one and it was not a good experience.

[Bill Marcy]

Personally, I don't think either car is a good choice. I can tell you Catera and Mitsubishi horror stories. Furthermore, almost all cars with timing belts are in need of new belts between 60 and 80K miles. In many cases, failure to replace the belt before it brakes will result in a major job, in some cases you have to replace the engine completely.

[Mike Stevens]

We just had the timing belt replaced in my wife's PT Cruiser. The original lasted through 100,000 miles. When she asked the question I had no idea what a job it was. Recommendations were from 60K to 90K miles. So at 100K she was on borrowed time was the thought. Prices ranged from $640 to $1,400. Why the big difference we will never know. Only two shops were cheaper than the Chrysler dealer. The dealer was third in price and was sure it was a one day job. Some shops said it would be hard to promise a one day job. Its done and no problems. I like chains and gears...they make noise when they are getting bad. Maybe its an age thing.
Horror stories abound about belts not getting changed in time. So I am thinking make and model have nothing to do with it. If its got a belt and lots of miles know you will have to change it or get it changed. This is not a job for the timid. And some of the tools you will have to buy or rent from the parts stores. After some serious consideration we opted for the shop job with a warranty on the work. Some of these cars require that you drop the engine off the mounts and then jack it up or drop it to get enough clearance to get your parts and hands in to do the work.
Catera or Gallant? What else will fit your needs?
Mike

[Jonathan Murphy]

I've been there when it came to belts breaking. The belt on the Honda broke about 3 years ago (at about 140k miles) and when it did, some major damage was done. While I don't recall exactly what the damage was, it did involve having to have the heads re-worked. And to make matters worse, the heads had to be worked again after they were re-installed. Prior to that, when I spoke to a Honda dealer about changing the timing belt, they also suggested changing the water pump while they had the car torn down. I (stupidly) passed as money was tight and I assumed that I had more time left on the belt. Not long after the timing belt deal, the water pump went out. So if I get another Honda, that is going to be the first thing I do prior to using it daily.

As far as belts and chains are concerned, I was told years ago that if they break on Japanese cars, major damage will occur (see above!), but that there is usually no damage on American made cars. My first car, a 1985 Pontiac Sunbird, had the timing chain break after only 40K miles and there was no damage. Mind you, I cannot speak for todays engines, but I am assuming the same holds true.

What are my needs? I am looking for a small to mid-size sedan about 5-7 years old in the $6k price range that gets about 28mpg or so. I am not too concerned with the milage, but I would like to stay in the 100k mile range. I have looked at a Volkswagon Passat, Cadillac Fleetwood, Honda Accord and Mitsubishi Galant. The car I get will either be passed on to my daughter when she begins driving in the next 3 years (if I cannot find her a 1968 Chrysler) or to my girlfriend for her to drive to work once we get married (no date set).

Finally, I want to thank the moderator for allowing this off topic discussion to flourish. And I want to thank all you have offered advice. This just goes to show that this is one of the best car clubs around. THANKS!!!

[Rick Franklin]

The Catera is a German import made by Opel. My experience in talking to the guys at the local Cadillac dealership that i to for is that they are not good cars. I dont know much about the Galant. Check with your mechanic and see if it has a "zero tolerance engine" If it does, then its big trouble if the timing belt breaks. My personal preference would be a 03 Chevy Impala. Just as good as the accord and equal gas mileage

[Paul Steinberg]

If the timing belt or the timing chain breaks when the engine is in a higher RPM range, there will be lots of damage. At low RPM, the damage is usually minimal. The timing chain/belt is what operates the camshaft, and is run off the crankshaft. The camshaft is what makes the valves open and close. The valves stop moving when the belt/chain breaks or jumps a few teeth, and then the pistons will be hitting the valves and damaging them. This is an over simplified explanation. Older Pontiac V-8's should have the timing chains replaced at 60,000 miles. At 70,000 miles, you are living on borrowed time, with one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel. Always follow the manufacturers suggest service intervals, and you won't go wrong. Who else knows the product better than the manufacturer?
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