Possible purchase of a 75 MM Criterion Ambulance...Opinions??

[Taban Beigali]

Hey all!

There's a 1975 Miller Meteor Criterion Ambulance that I've been eye-ing for purchase for the past couple years, but the thing is that its not been run for a few years (I think like 6 or 7 years at most).

The outside body is pretty good, except for a few minor rust spots, but it does need a new paint job all around. Inside is not bad just needs cleaning. I believe it's the original engine and transmission (don't know the mileage).

With all these things in mind, does anyone have a rough idea of a good price that it's worth for purchase?

Just curious if anyone has any pointers or opinions for these Criterions?...


Thank you,
Tabz

[Kenn Evans II]

It all depends on how bad you really want it and it is more a buyers market, I, site un seen would maybe start at 800-1500 dollars and maybe start even lower and see what the current owner wants for it. With its age you would most likely not be able to have it certified for active service and the engine could be a 472 or 500 CID The 472 is easier to work on and gets better fuel economy The condition sounds reasonable for its location and if you can save it from a salvage yard try it, you can always go up in your offer but hopefully you won't overpay. These cars parts can add up fast when getting new and reconditioned parts. Good luck

[Todd Merrifield]

The last few that I have seen for sale that were running and driveable but needed major body work have sold in the $4000 range, give or take.

[Danny Ryder]

If it is a 75 it should have a 500 engine as the 75 and 76 caddy did. Not as desirable an engine as the 472. You will need to buy it as if it will never run and you don't know why it was parked or what it will take to get it running. Another factor is if the lights and sirens are still on it and what type it has. With what info you have offered I would try to get for $1000 to $2000 and if you are lucky you can get it running and come out ok. I was told they only made 150 criterions from 73-76. THe one I just bought has serious body issues and I bought based on not being able to get running and parting out if need be being it had the lights and sirens in place. I got lucky and with little effort she now runs and drives great, just got to fix the brakes line that is leaking. I believe my car had not been started in at least 10 years and maybe up to 20 as last plate was from 1990 where it was last in service.

[Todd Merrifield]

The last few that I have seen for sale that were running and driveable but needed major body work have sold in the $4000 range, give or take.

I should mention also that the ones I saw had at least $1000+ worth of working lights and sirens on them. Makes a big difference.

[Doug House]

Just to throw a number into the mix, my '75 Criterion, which I bought last year, was $4,000.00 U.S. (plus shipping etc.) with a lot of body work required. They didn't charge me any extra for the rust.

[Danny Ryder]

Just to throw a number into the mix, my '75 Criterion, which I bought last year, was $4,000.00 U.S. (plus shipping etc.) with a lot of body work required. They didn't charge me any extra for the rust.

Right Doug, I think mine was cheaper to ship because it weighed less than they expected from alot of it being gone and the further they hauled it the lighter it got! Hehehe!

[Danny Ryder]

I should mention also that the ones I saw had at least $1000+ worth of working lights and sirens on them. Makes a big difference.

As Todd mentioned if it has the lights and sirens and depending on which ones will make major price difference. I payed for mine based on a car that was rusty, didn't run, may never run, may be worth more for parts, but after I got it running and driving I would not part it and was a better deal than I had hoped for. The shipping did cost me almost what I paid for the car but all that was factored in when I negotiated price with seller.

[Doug House]

Right Doug, I think mine was cheaper to ship because it weighed less than they expected from alot of it being gone and the further they hauled it the lighter it got! Hehehe!

So maybe I should re-trace the route yours took, Danny. I might find some of the parts I need at the side of the road! :drive2:

[Danny Ryder]

So maybe I should re-trace the route yours took, Danny. I might find some of the parts I need at the side of the road! :drive2:

Parts? NO! Piles of Rust, yeah!:wowguy:

[Steve Loftin]

I couldn't say it better myself:

:wwpics:

Perhaps then we could give you better insight...

[John ED Renstrom]

so if you want the car, can fix, it get it. if you looking to get it for a investment fold your money over and put it in the other pocket. these cars are a money pit and you need to look at it as the most fun you can have for your money. the 75 year has most all the parts still on the market. that is with the exception of the MM stuff no longer being made. so judge your skill level agents you pocket book before you decide the price you pay for the car is the cheapest part. but if you can get a complete car with the lights on it for under 3gs home then I would say your doing about as fair as the market will bear on that type of car.

[Chris M. Kelley]

What's the average ceiling height in a Criterion? :cool:

[Danny Ryder]

so if you want the car, can fix, it get it. if you looking to get it for a investment fold your money over and put it in the other pocket. these cars are a money pit and you need to look at it as the most fun you can have for your money. the 75 year has most all the parts still on the market. that is with the exception of the MM stuff no longer being made. so judge your skill level agents you pocket book before you decide the price you pay for the car is the cheapest part. but if you can get a complete car with the lights on it for under 3gs home then I would say your doing about as fair as the market will bear on that type of car.

Good advise John, I got mine out today and ran couple miles down the road and back and boy was that fun. It is amazing how good it runs and drives to have been sitting for sooo many years. Now if it only had brakes.:wowguy:

[Steve Loftin]

What's the average ceiling height in a Criterion? :cool:

"Average" height? That's an unusual question, but here goes: 57.5" (54" rear floor, 61" front floor)

[John ED Renstrom]

with a set of 235x15 tires on it, the lights and back board box removed it will fit in a 7 foot garage door. but the garage had better be 23 feet deep. all together you will need a 9x8 foot hole to get it threw. unless there are some weird lights on it.

[Taban Beigali]

Thanks for the responses!

I spoke with the owner before, sometime last year. He wanted something like 10k for the criterion, but I'm going to try and get it down to 5k max, as I don't think its worth more.

..Funny thing was that he started @ 20k to see if I was really dumb enough that I would agree...lol.

Anyways, It does have all the lights on it, don't know if they work though. And he "says" it will run if a new battery goes in there..but who knows,... ill have to actually go out there and check it out for myself.

Has anyone used shipping companies to get these massive boats from one state to another? any recommendations?

-Tabz

[Paul Steinberg]

Other than the state of not running, what state is it located in?? Non running cars cost more to move than running cars.

[Attila Bethlenfalvy]

Taban, place a free ad on uship.com (http://www.uship.com/vehicles/). Be sure to include specifics: location, height, length, weight, inop, instructions, other parameters, etc. Transport companies will then undercut each other until a bid is accepted. Within 3-4 days the bids will get pretty low as many are looking for work.

After hearing many positives about the service, I finally had an opportunity to use uship last year. Couldn't be happier with the shipping company I ended up chosing. Service, delivery time, and price were top notch! Ended up costing $525 to have an inop '58 Superior moved from CO to TX; or a whopping .57 cents a mile. I'll find the company's info if you'd like it.

Good luck with your acquisition. Without pictures, $4-5k does seem more realistic.

[Doug House]

Hi, Taban....just so you have the information on file, the Criterion is approximately 90" tall, including 184 Beacon and backboard box. This may vary slightly depending on tire size or different lighting. If you are shipping by train, as I did across Canada with mine, you're allowed a maximum of 8 feet.

Good luck with your project!

[Danny Ryder]

Thanks for the responses!

I spoke with the owner before, sometime last year. He wanted something like 10k for the criterion, but I'm going to try and get it down to 5k max, as I don't think its worth more.

..Funny thing was that he started @ 20k to see if I was really dumb enough that I would agree...lol.

Anyways, It does have all the lights on it, don't know if they work though. And he "says" it will run if a new battery goes in there..but who knows,... ill have to actually go out there and check it out for myself.

Has anyone used shipping companies to get these massive boats from one state to another? any recommendations?

-Tabz


Call Sancrest in Billings, Mo. and talk to Bruce or Phil. Don't have number handy but they have web site. They carry new limo's for people like accubuilt and other new coach builders. They carry stuff for us almost weekly. They brought a fire truck from Iowa to Ga for me for $850. ALso brought my criterion from san antonio Tx. to Ga. for $850 and it didn't run nor did it have brakes. They can do it all just have to let them know exactly what you have to get it priced right.

[Taban Beigali]

Other than the state of not running, what state is it located in?? Non running cars cost more to move than running cars.

I believe it is still located in northern Utah and would need to shipped to where I am in Southern California.

[Taban Beigali]

Thanks everyone. I will definitely get in touch with those shipping companies listed.
I was kinda worried there, because I thought the average price to ship these would be something like 2k because of the size, but $500-$1000 is pretty decent.

-Taban

[Chris M. Kelley]

"Average" height? That's an unusual question, but here goes: 57.5" (54" rear floor, 61" front floor)

Well, I was thinking that one could argue the room differences between it and a standard Type II. Hence, that info could up the probability of having it licensed for use.

[Richard Vyse]

Good luck with your purchase. The Criterion was a 3 year ambulance so if at all possible, grab it. Any ambulance is a money pit as anyone of the PCS people will tell you. I love my Criterion!

Richard

Then...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPLorGWjcgY

Now...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mCYWOP4YwQ

[Taban Beigali]

Wow, that is one great looking criterion! Love the roar of the engine, does yours have the 500 engine or the 400 one?

I really like how you put the "74" on the front side fenders behind the front tires, its a great touch.

-Taban

[Danny Ryder]

Hey Richard, drove the 74 around again saturday for about 15 miles. What a hoot, just gets better everytime.

[Richard Vyse]

Wow, that is one great looking criterion! Love the roar of the engine, does yours have the 500 engine or the 400 one?

I really like how you put the "74" on the front side fenders behind the front tires, its a great touch.

-Taban

Mine is a 74 so it has the 472 engine. The number helps some people with knowing what year it is but, that never stops that question anyways. Anytime we "Criterions" owners can talk about our cars, bring it on. :3some:

[Bill Leverett]

Taban...I used AllAutoShiiping.com (part of the United Intermodal Group) based in Texas for moving my '73 Lifeliner from Boise ID to Blaine Wash. While the price was reasonable, I would not recommend them. I'm currently working through the Texas BBB to resolve the issues.

Others may have had a different experience with this company. PM me if you'd like further detail.

Bill

[Doug House]

Anytime we "Criterions" owners can talk about our cars, bring it on. :3some:

You like to talk about your Criterion, Richard? I thought I was the only one.

Mind you, you say nice things about yours. What I'm saying about mine these days isn't for polite company! :cry:

[Doug House]

While the price was reasonable, I would not recommend them. I'm currently working through the Texas BBB to resolve the issues.

Bill

As I recall, Bill, you were 10 out of 10 on the "Frustration Scale" with those guys. In fact, only your integrity and good character stood in the way of you committing assault! :badbad:

Glad to hear you're seeking some recourse. I hope that goes well for you!

[Richard Vyse]

You like to talk about your Criterion, Richard? I thought I was the only one.

Mind you, you say nice things about yours. What I'm saying about mine these days isn't for polite company! :cry:

Any talk about a Criterion is good conversation. :my2cents:

[Doug House]

Any talk about a Criterion is good conversation. :my2cents:

Well, if that's the case.....

"My Criterion is a rotten-floored, rusted-out, door-stuck piece of.......

History! Yeah, that's it.....history!"

[Danny Ryder]

You like to talk about your Criterion, Richard? I thought I was the only one.

Mind you, you say nice things about yours. What I'm saying about mine these days isn't for polite company! :cry:

Hey Doug, mine is rough but it gets better by the day and although a major job to refurbish I just plan to get decent looking and road worthy and enjoy.

[Richard Vyse]

Well, if that's the case.....

"My Criterion is a rotten-floored, rusted-out, door-stuck piece of.......

History! Yeah, that's it.....history!"

Hey, that's a Criterion your talking about there. :respect:

[Danny Ryder]

Hey, that's a Criterion your talking about there. :respect:

Hey Doug, tell it like it is, don't sugar coat it.:071:

[John ED Renstrom]

You like to talk about your Criterion, Richard? I thought I was the only one.

Mind you, you say nice things about yours. What I'm saying about mine these days isn't for polite company! :cry:

thats cause he is driving his and you are working on yours. :4_11_9:

[Tony Karsnia]

Tabon,

Please feel welcome to check out the special Criterion exhibit located on the PCS Northland Chapter's website: www.northlandpcs.com

[Bill Leverett]

Doug...I'll give you $500 cash for the Ful-Vue lights no questions asked...then that's one less thing you have to worry about.:rofl:

Remember, any problem can be solved with time and money.

[Taban Beigali]

Taban...I used AllAutoShiiping.com (part of the United Intermodal Group) based in Texas for moving my '73 Lifeliner from Boise ID to Blaine Wash. While the price was reasonable, I would not recommend them. I'm currently working through the Texas BBB to resolve the issues.

Others may have had a different experience with this company. PM me if you'd like further detail.

Bill

Thanks for the heads up Bill. Hope your issues will be resolved soon.

[Taban Beigali]

Tabon,

Please feel welcome to check out the special Criterion exhibit located on the PCS Northland Chapter's website: www.northlandpcs.com

That's a great site, I remember looking through it when I first gained my interest in these old ambulances a few years ago. I'll have to go through it again, it's been awhile...

[Doug House]

Doug...I'll give you $500 cash for the Ful-Vue lights no questions asked...then that's one less thing you have to worry about.:rofl:

You're a generous and thoughtful man, Bill. I've always respected that about you.

That was $500 cash PER LIGHT....right? :thumb:

By the way, I got you an APCOR for your Caddy. No....not the Biophone. No way I'm parting with that. A Motorola APCOR. Don't get TOO excited! Feel free to pick it up next time you're over this way.

[Taban Beigali]

I have a couple more questions if anyone has any thoughts on...

First, if I were to see the 75' Criterion's mileage reading shown as anywhere from 50-80k, is it best to assume it is the original 50-80k and not 150-180k......Reason why I ask this is because I thought I heard that by the mid to late 70's the government was getting strict with efficiency standards, therefore possibly shortening the active use of these ambulances?..which leads me to believe most should have relatively low mileage for their age.

Secondly, This is probably not going to be an issue on these ambulances, but if someone were to spin back the mileage reading to show a lower mileage, would there be a white color/white stripe inbetween the numbers in the cracks?....I know on the 80's model cadillac's that they had a protection system like so that if someone were to do that it would show with the white colors like a warning for a prospective buyer.

Sorry for the long questions..:poster_oops: I got carried away..

-Taban

[John ED Renstrom]

the odomenter is that same as any caddy and it's not the miles but how hard they were put on it. also what happened to it between them. 50 to 60 sounds about right for a ambulance I havent seen any that far over 100,000

[Taban Beigali]

Hey all! I was able to find some photos saved in my email of the criterion I'm interested in..

But how can I post them here?..I tried posting the html link, but the pics don't show up?

[Kenn Evans II]

If it is too rusted just do like my neighbor with his benz wagon, the city had complaints about his cars so he pulled it out to the curb, concreted a post through the frontend and put a mailbox on it and said take it up with the post office. LOL :071:

[John ED Renstrom]

Hey all! I was able to find some photos saved in my email of the criterion I'm interested in..

But how can I post them here?..I tried posting the html link, but the pics don't show up?

one needs to be a site supporter to post pictures on the site. links to sites that will allow it are OK. flicker photo is the only one that comes to mid right now and then the Drop shots site I use.

[Taban Beigali]

If it is too rusted just do like my neighbor with his benz wagon, the city had complaints about his cars so he pulled it out to the curb, concreted a post through the frontend and put a mailbox on it and said take it up with the post office. LOL :071:

That is hilarious!

[Taban Beigali]

Okay, I put them up on photobucket. Here are the links...
One of them is a bit small, so I apologize for that.

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab293/tbcaddy18/75%20Cad%20Amb/75CADFRONT.jpg

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab293/tbcaddy18/75%20Cad%20Amb/75CADFRONTRIGHT.jpg

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab293/tbcaddy18/75%20Cad%20Amb/75CADFULLRIGHT_001.jpg

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab293/tbcaddy18/75%20Cad%20Amb/75CADRIGHT.jpg

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab293/tbcaddy18/75%20Cad%20Amb/75CADDYREAR.jpg

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab293/tbcaddy18/75%20Cad%20Amb/75CADDYLEFT.jpg

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab293/tbcaddy18/75%20Cad%20Amb/75CADDYINTERIOR.jpg

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab293/tbcaddy18/75%20Cad%20Amb/75CADDOOR.jpg

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab293/tbcaddy18/75%20Cad%20Amb/75CADINT.jpg

[Mike McDonald]

I think Taban may have set a record here..... 1195 views and 48 replies all from dedicated PCS Members trying to help him with his questions on the value and purchasing of a specific Criterion WITH NO PICTURE!

[Mike McDonald]

Whoops... foot properly in mouth....here they are crossed in cyberspace! Sorry! MM

[Brendan Martin]

I wonder what the deal is with the Superior in front of it?:hide:

[Danny Ryder]

Pictures look great, if you don't want it let someone know where it is cause others will want it. Looks alot better than mine.

[Taban Beigali]

I should know by this summer/fall if I will be buying it or not. If I determine that I cannot I will definitely let you all know.

Last time I spoke with the owner of these two, he was using the superior frequently, so I'm not sure if he wants to sell it, but Ill ask him when I talk with him.

All I know about the car is that it's all original, and that he replaced the front windshield a couple years ago, so these pics are from before the windshield replacement. He mentioned that it may just need a new battery to start...I'm hoping that is the case ....:rolleyes:

[John ED Renstrom]

man find a car like that and doesn't buy it needs a little help. it's all there not torne up if you want one you'll pay dear for one in any better shape. they all looked about that rusty the first month in service.

[Taban Beigali]

From looking at the pictures, and if the criterion does end-up "running", would 6k be a decent price?..or more?..or less?

[Danny Ryder]

From looking at the pictures, and if the criterion does end-up "running", would 6k be a decent price?..or more?..or less?

IF running condition and based on pictures you posted I feel $6k would be within reason. Maybe alittle high?

[John ED Renstrom]

from what I have seen the 5 range would be the norm. to me thats high for a high top in this condition. but I paied that once 10 years ago. but that's what they have been selling for running or not. expect to get at least that again in it putting it on the road, in road worthy condition. if you spend less then your that much ahead in the body work.

[Mike McDonald]

I agree with Ed and Danny.... $5 to $6,000.00 is probably a little on the high end but OK if all the drive train is good. The last Criterion I bought was a 1973 (X-Norfolk, Nebraska Ambulance Service when new) in 2004 for $2,850.00 from Jim Crabtree in LA. It was in near perfect mechanical condition, all lights and sirens worked, near perfect interior, junk tires, slightly cracked windshield and a lot of lower rocker and door rust, but also included a lot of spare parts ie; a door, front fender, skirts etc. So in today's dollars if it runs, steers, shifts and drives well it's probably worth double the 2004 price? MM