PDA

View Full Version : 1939 Rim


John McCulloch
01-24-2018, 11:08 AM
Split a rim this summer so need one or 2 commercial rims for my 1939 Cadillac/La Salle hearse.
measuring across the rim (diameter).....17 3/4" depth.....6 1/4"
12 rivets for each rim 5 bolt holes 5 clips to hold hubcap
tire size...7:50 X 16
We're attending the Detroit meet in August. You can bring them or ship them to the hotel.
Contact with info: John McCulloch (Ontario) 519-369-2432
pjmcculloch@eastlink.ca

Kurt Arends
01-24-2018, 06:04 PM
I don't think there was any difference between the standard Cadillac rims and the commercial chassis rims prior to 1957. All 1956 and older Cadillac rims had 12 rivets. I have never weighed the '56 and older rims to do weight comparrisons, but they are visibly identical.

John McCulloch
01-24-2018, 10:31 PM
Thanks for replying Kurt. There is a difference in the rims because I have both from a car and the hearse. The car ones are about 3/4" smaller in diameter and 1/4 in depth I don't know if there is a difference in weight. John

Kurt Arends
01-24-2018, 10:38 PM
John,
Are you sure that both sets are original to a '39 Cadillac? I do not know that vintage very well, other than to know that they were all 12 rivet in 1956 and prior.

John McCulloch
01-27-2018, 04:54 PM
Kurt There had to be a standard rim and a commercial rim since as I stated I have both the ones came from an original 1939 four door sedan and I checked with the fellow I got the car from for parts and he said they had never been changed. I cannot be sure that the ones of the s/s hearse where original but painted and pinstripping seemed to be original. I tried to weigh them and on a bathroom scales there is about 2 lbs difference. Thanks again for trying to help me. John

Paul Steinberg
01-28-2018, 02:26 PM
Are you using radial tires on those rims?

John ED Renstrom
01-28-2018, 02:41 PM
looks like they split one mounting it. now one can tap the split back and weld it from the out side. then use it for the spare. while your looking for a suitable replacement. you can even get lucky and still mount it tubeless. but I would guess that it's a tube rim.

John McCulloch
01-28-2018, 02:46 PM
Paul: They are bias tires with tubes and load rated for the hearse. Everything has worked fine since putting the hearse back on the road in 2009 until now when we blew the rim apart this summer hardly moving when it did so no damage other than a new tube. John

Kurt Arends
01-28-2018, 04:51 PM
Just out of curiosity, was that rim pretty rusty prior to your restoration? It just looks as though there was a lot of corrosion to the inner rim, prior to painting it. If it was heavily rusted at one point, that could have contributed to the split.

John McCulloch
01-28-2018, 06:24 PM
Kurt: Yes there was some rust on the rims but needed them and used the best 4. Since the hearse was restored in 2009 it has covered over 10,000 miles with no trouble until now that is why I posted to see if anyone would have one or two as replacements. John

Paul Steinberg
01-28-2018, 06:33 PM
Most likely, any wheels you find are going to be rusted, so you might not be any better off with the used rims, even if you do find them. Rusted old metal is weakened, and a real safety hazard, considering that you drive the car long distances. If it were my car, I would bite the bullet, and have Stockton Wheel manufacture a couple or even 4 new rims for the peace of mind knowing that they are highly unlikely to fail. I can see another failure like that one happening at 40 or 50 MPH totaling your car, and even causing you physical injury. There isn't much between you and the road except for your tires and rims. Your car is only as safe as your weakest part. I commend you for driving your car, instead of trailering it to meets.

John McCulloch
01-28-2018, 06:35 PM
Ed: Do not think they did it when mounting as we used it on the rear for 8 years. Could hear it when it split then tube blew. Patti says she must of gained weight and was too heavy on her side.

Peter Grave
01-28-2018, 09:14 PM
I have been sitting back and watching and listening on this one. First let me say I have been working with vehicles since 1954 and a car dealer since 1958 with time out for the Navy. In all this time I have NEVER seen a wheel fail as this one did. My thoughts run along the line of remove another wheel and tire break it down and have the wheel magnafluxed looking for stress cracking in the same area. If you find none then the wheel that failed my well be a defective one that indeed took 79 years to fail. If you find an issue with another wheel then you may want to look at converting to 15 inch wheels that are newer.Let me close by saying my involvement has been an operator of a salvage yard so if could be bent busted shredded torn apart or destroyed I have seen it. again never have I seen a wheel fail as yours did.

Paul Steinberg
01-28-2018, 09:56 PM
I haven't seen a wheel first hand, however, I have been told by others that installed radial tires on rims that were never designed for them, that they split at the bead. Some say that it is a result of how radial tires flex at the sidewall. Possibly his bias ply tires were tubeless?


Can you put a tube in a radial tire?


Can you tell me if it is not good practice to install a tube in a radial tire?

A: It is a bad idea to put a tube into any tubeless tire. Tubeless tires have a considerably more robust construction than tube tires, which need the help of a tube of air to maintain sidewall stability and air pressure.

John McCulloch
01-28-2018, 09:58 PM
Peter I agree with you on this. The fellow that restored the hearse said he has only seen this happen once before. Thanks for your input. John

Peter Grave
01-28-2018, 10:22 PM
Paul I've seen wheels fail with radials but not as this16 inch Cadillac did. The one I have seen fail especially aluminum wheels fail on the outer lip. Usually brought on by a curb scuff. I have scrapped a couple of Town Car wheels from the local limo guy they were not even cracked but became porus and would not seal on a tubeless tire. You could blow the tire up lay it flat pour water around the lip and see air bubbling out at the rim edge and no amount of cleaning and reinflation would stop the leak rim just junk. Now these were rims from a Town Car stretch limo with over 300k on it.

John ED Renstrom
01-28-2018, 10:44 PM
most likely the tube blew out and the rim split when it hit the pavement. if the source Paul gave you can make them correct I would certainly check into that.

do you have any Ida what years are the same? I'll keep my ear to the ground

Kurt Arends
01-28-2018, 11:07 PM
All,

I checked both my 15th Edition Hollander and 19th Edition Hollander manuals. According to Hollander, only Cadillac 1938-1940 commercial chassis wheels interchange. They are a 16"x6", 6/6" wheel.

The Series 75s & 90s were 16"x5", 6/6" wheel. All lesser Cadillac series had a smaller bolt pattern.

Had to dig pretty deep into the stack of Hollanders to find this one. Earliest Hollander I have is a 9th Edition. All are originals.

Kurt Arends
01-29-2018, 12:42 AM
Hollander shows all '38-'40 LaSalles as having a 16'x4.5" rim with a 5/5" bolt pattern.

John, Does your LaSalle have 5 lugs or 6?

Paul Steinberg
01-29-2018, 12:47 AM
Had to dig pretty deep into the stack of Hollanders to find this one. Earliest Hollander I have is a 9th Edition. All are originals.

Should you ever need, I have an original 8th edition. It is all typed, not typeset!!!

Daniel Scully
01-29-2018, 01:22 AM
Should you ever need, I have an original 8th edition. It is all typed, not typeset!!!

Some one you went to school with?

Paul Steinberg
01-29-2018, 10:02 AM
He was about 5 or 6 grades ahead of me.

Kurt Arends
01-29-2018, 03:42 PM
Split a rim this summer so need one or 2 commercial rims for my 1939 Cadillac/La Salle hearse.
measuring across the rim (diameter).....17 3/4" depth.....6 1/4"
12 rivets for each rim 5 bolt holes 5 clips to hold hubcap
tire size...7:50 X 16
We're attending the Detroit meet in August. You can bring them or ship them to the hotel.
Contact with info: John McCulloch (Ontario) 519-369-2432
pjmcculloch@eastlink.ca

John,
All '38-'40 Cadillac Commercial Chassis, Series 90, & Series 75 models came from the factory with 6-lug wheels. If your '39 LaSalle hearse has 5-lug wheels as you stated, then they are not Cadillac C.C. wheels, but most likely standard LaSalle wheels.

John McCulloch
01-29-2018, 07:59 PM
Kurt: Mine are all La Salle 5 bolt rims BUT the 5 hearse rims are larger and heavier than the 5 car rims.

Kurt Arends
01-29-2018, 10:14 PM
Hollander shows all LaSalles using the same 5-lug wheels. Your hearse wheels would not be the same as the Cadillac C.C., Series 75, or Series 90 rims, which are 6-lug.

Peter Grave
01-29-2018, 10:48 PM
This is getting weirder now LaSalle was just about history in 1939 and went off the map in 1940. I have no Cadillac or LaSalle parts books for that era. However calling attention to Buick they had quite a selection of wheels available in this era, heavy duty,export,special application even an 18inch rim to raise the cars road clearance for high crown farm roads. Perhaps GM did the same for five lug Cadillac passenger and LaSalle. Thus what we may have here is standard 16 inch passenger car wheels and a heavy duty optional wheel ordered when the vehicle was being sold for a Hearse conversion on ordering all you would have to do would be tick off the correct box just like no or one or two sidemounts. Just a thought if any one has a parts book for that era perhaps that will shed light on this.

Paul Steinberg
01-30-2018, 08:56 AM
It could also be that when the chassis was ordered, knowing what it was going to be built into, the assembly plant sourced wheels from another GM brand, such as Buick, and installed them, knowing that the bolt hole diameter, number of lugs, and backspacing was the same. I have seen many wheels that appear to be the same on the front side and width, but don't have the proper back spacing to properly accommodate the braking or steering mechanism.

John McCulloch
01-30-2018, 10:02 AM
Thanks for all the information fellows these things can get very complicated.
I sent a e-mail to Stockton wheels but no reply yet. I will keep looking for rims that match my original post measurements. Thanks again John

Peter Grave
01-30-2018, 10:09 AM
Good thought but Buick is not workable as they had lug bolts with a locating pin on the drum to use when installing wheel and I think the offset on a Buick may be slightly different although I have used Buick wheels on Packards with great success. As I said we need a parts book for the era as I think there was an HD wheel offered that would have been part of an order placed for a Commercial conversion car. Much like the Cadillacs of the early 90s where the Aluminum wheels on commercial chassis were HD but looked the same at a casual glance.

John McCulloch
02-18-2018, 04:08 PM
Ed you
said most likely the tube blew out and the rim split when it hit the pavement. if the source Paul gave you can make them correct I would certainly check into that.

I don't think so as we were turning off the highway to a smaller road we heard the rim go bang then it was ticking on the u bolt holding rear springs for 4 revolutions before the tube blew was almost stopped be this time so no damage to tire. Have contacted Stockton tire as Paul suggested and had to send pictures of rim as he had no idea what I was asking for a commercial rim.

John ED Renstrom
02-18-2018, 04:44 PM
That is a strange one. I don't think i have ever heard of that happen.