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Blake Sherwin
01-15-2018, 05:20 PM
Maybe its just that I'm paranoid and dont have enough experience driving old cars, but after warming the engine up for 15-20 minutes I notice that it usually starts out really hard to get past 20 mph until I've driven it around the neighborhood a bit and "warmed up" the transmission.

Until I slowly cruise around a bit, it seems giving it too much throttle results in what I can only describe as it trying to choke out. It doesnt sound like its going to stall but the engine stops trying to turn and acts like its stuck. Until I back off the gas and push it again, then it will usually start moving. Once ive got things moving for a decent amount of time though it runs like a champ.

Originally I chalked it up to the engine still being too cold, but now that I think of it, it makes more sense that the trans isnt being warmed up until it moves.

Is this just normal for old cars or should I be concerned about my transmission?

Alot of this is new to me but im trying to learn.

Rick Franklin
01-15-2018, 06:10 PM
check your fluid level

Blake Sherwin
01-15-2018, 06:14 PM
check your fluid level

Checked that over the weekend and it was full. Had all the trans leaks fixed a few weeks ago. All fluids are surprisingly up to the full level

Peter Grave
01-15-2018, 06:20 PM
Chances are the choke (on carbuator) is stuck or not opening at the right rate. This will cause a bog Trans sounds fine You do not have to "warm" them up. PM your phone number I talk better than type. Had many 60s Cadillacs in the day bought a new one every year from 62 to 71.

Paul Steinberg
01-15-2018, 06:23 PM
Couple things to check.
1. Make sure that the choke is working properly.
2. Transmission linkage and the switch on the carburetor is properly plugged into the wire harness.
4. Transmission linkage is not out of adjustment.
5. Did they check to see if the transmission vacuum modulator is not leaking, and that the rubber vacuum hose from the intake manifold to the vacuum modulator has been replaced. There are two 6" approx. rubber hoses that connect the vacuum modulator. One at the modulator itself, and the other at the end of the metal line that goes to the transmission, and joins at the carburetor or intake manifold. Vacuum leaks can cause you a lot of grief, but are relatively easy and inexpensive to repair.
6. Engine timing must be set exactly as it is explained in the FSM (factory shop manual). There are exact instructions on what vacuum lines need to be unplugged, and capped so they don't leak vacuum. If the instructions aren't followed exactly, the timing will not be set where it should be. Vacuum effects a lot of things on a car, and sometimes it is difficult to diagnose.

John ED Renstrom
01-15-2018, 10:45 PM
jump in start the car as soon as it fires and is running drop it in gear and go. idling the car is very hard on it and not a good practice. you are problem just loading it up with raw gas. the transmission after 20 minuets of idling will be at normal operation temp.not necessary at all. now at 0 out they will be a little stiff
if they are sitting out side but it only takes a mile of two to have them warmed up. just take it easy off the start and go.

Danny Ryder
01-16-2018, 09:55 AM
Sounds more like a choke issue or even choke pull off not working.

Blake Sherwin
01-17-2018, 11:21 AM
Chances are the choke (on carbuator) is stuck or not opening at the right rate. This will cause a bog Trans sounds fine You do not have to "warm" them up. PM your phone number I talk better than type. Had many 60s Cadillacs in the day bought a new one every year from 62 to 71.

Will PM you, I have some time during lunch

Couple things to check.
Engine timing must be set exactly as it is explained in the FSM (factory shop manual).

I unfortunately dont have the manual, but I will look at the items you mentioned

jump in start the car as soon as it fires and is running drop it in gear and go. idling the car is vary hard on it and not a good practice. you are problem just loading it up with raw gas. the transmission after 20 minuets of idling will be at normal operation temp.not necessary at all. now at 0 out they will be a little stiff
if they are sitting out side but it only takes a mile of two to have them warmed up. just take it easy off the start and go.

I have been warming up in park, i will try this and see if this is part of my problem or not. I appreciate all the input.

John ED Renstrom
01-17-2018, 10:02 PM
the fluid cycles thew the radiator. as that is were the trans cooler is, as it warms up so will the transmission. plus it has direct contact to the engine block.

the standard trick was to let it fire and then pick up the speed enough to let the engine clear out the raw fuel.l you don't have to race the engine at a high rpm just pick up the speed till it smooths out and will drop back to the high idle and run smooth. then you should be good to go. if it bulks and stumbles when you but it in gear there may be problems with the choke. or in the settings of the engine. Pet maybe able to talk you threw the trouble shooting of things.

Blake Sherwin
01-26-2018, 04:36 PM
I havent quite figured this out yet but im guessing it probably choke related. Previously it had only happened when I first start driving, but Wednesday I drove it 45 minutes from Tulsa to Owasso and a few times while steadily driving 40 or so it happened, engine kinda starts cutting and acting like its about to choke out.

The only way to get it to stop is to let off the gas completely then hit the throttle again on and off a few times until it clears up and starts running smooth again.

in my limited knowledge I wonder if its possible that somehow the choke flap is falling down and closing while the throttles down?

Aside from this its been driving pretty good, its just doing this every so often. When I have some spare time I may just eyeball the choke and see how freely the choke moves. My mother in law told me to spray some carb cleaner on it, but if it was a remanned carb I shouldnt need to do that i'd think. My mother also suggested I put a "heet" additive into the gas to prevent water buildup.

I have done neither yet

Paul Steinberg
01-26-2018, 05:42 PM
Gasoline today has ethanol in it, so "HEET" isn't going to do anything. As for spraying the choke mechanism with carb cleaner, if the carburetor was rebuilt, it shouldn't need to be cleaned. To me, I would be questioning the person that did the carb rebuild as to why there is an issue. There is no way to justify the quality of someone else's work unless you have the ability to assess it in person. Having said that, I have seen lots of "hacks" that claim to know how to rebuild carburetors but know next to nothing about how a carburetor works, or what to look for when there is a problem. From memory, your car is a 1968, and that has a Rochester Quadrajet carburetor, which is extremely complicated/sophisticated, so rebuilding it correctly is best left to the person that rebuilds them all the time, not a "jack of all trades".

Blake Sherwin
01-26-2018, 06:00 PM
It hasnt been rebuilt yet. I have the original in a box in the coach, they put in a remanned quadrajet. I'm probably going to give them a call. While at this point I dont want them messing with it more, they did say if there was a carb problem they would look at it no charge since they put it in

John ED Renstrom
01-26-2018, 10:07 PM
the one thing with the q jet you got to watch is over tightening the air cleaner nut.. it will pull the center of the top up and cause choke problems. but that would be a start up issue. not a run problem. it could be a low vacuum condition that lets the power valve pull open. normal if they have the float adjusted to high you get the problem your talking about rounding a corner. gas will slop over into the the intake and flood it out.

easy check for a vacuum leak is with a small propane torch. with the car running at idle, just crack the valve on the torch and run it around the base of the crab and the fittings and intake. if it picks up RPM you found a leak. needless to say you don't light the torch.

rebuilds are a problem as they will use parts off a number of different carbs to get one out the door. one other thing you can do is swap, put the original one back on if the problem changes or goes away you know it is a carb problem.

Peter Grave
01-27-2018, 11:38 AM
This is getting silly and costing money. My 68 Cadillac I bought new was a great car and I have had many 68s since including many Pro Cars this is not a troublesome year. The premo Carburator rebuilder is Larry Isgro Carburetors

1604 Argyle Rd,

Wantagh, NY 11793

(516) 783-1041 He as done my Packard Caribbean 2 4 barrels and others for me. Check his ratings on Google.

Paul Steinberg
01-27-2018, 12:56 PM
For other carburetor rebuilders, please check the recommended vendors forum. There is one person in Arizona that specializes in rebuilding the Rochester Quadrajet carburetors and knows them so well that he can identify the carburetor by just looking at it. This is the type of master carburetor rebuilder that you want to use, especially, if your carburetor has missing or miss-matched parts.

Carburetors Unlimited
7942 W Gold Dust Ave
Ste 3,
Peoria, AZ 85345

(623) 388-0990

http://www.carburetorsunlimited.com/

Blake Sherwin
01-29-2018, 10:46 AM
This is getting silly and costing money. My 68 Cadillac I bought new was a great car and I have had many 68s since including many Pro Cars this is not a troublesome year. The premo Carburator rebuilder is Larry Isgro Carburetors

1604 Argyle Rd,

Wantagh, NY 11793

(516) 783-1041 He as done my Packard Caribbean 2 4 barrels and others for me. Check his ratings on Google.

The reason im taking it back to the guys that installed this carburetor is because they will work on it free if its a carb issue. If they say its something else besides the carb then i will get a quote and walk out with my money for now. Cant really afford to throw money at it right now anyway. I figure as long as they will do carb work free I will let them take a free crack at it. If they figure it out and fix it, great. If they say I have another problem then at least I can take that info elsewhere.


For other carburetor rebuilders, please check the recommended vendors forum. There is one person in Arizona that specializes in rebuilding the Rochester Quadrajet carburetors and knows them so well that he can identify the carburetor by just looking at it. This is the type of master carburetor rebuilder that you want to use, especially, if your carburetor has missing or miss-matched parts.

Carburetors Unlimited
7942 W Gold Dust Ave
Ste 3,
Peoria, AZ 85345

(623) 388-0990

http://www.carburetorsunlimited.com/

Thanks, I will look into that. I do plan on getting the old one rebuilt.

Blake Sherwin
01-30-2018, 10:51 AM
Took it back in this morning to take advantange of the carburetor warranty. If the problem is carb related it will be free of charge. If its anything else I may just grab an estimate and hopefully leave with more info than I had before

Blake Sherwin
01-30-2018, 07:04 PM
Shop told me that they found the cause. They say i was running rich and my plugs were fouled. They said my auto choke is not working properly and that alot of old cars had auto chokes that didnt work well.

They recommended installing a manual choke, which they are going to give me an estimate for.

Im not sure on the manual choke. Why not fix the auto choke? In any case i cant afford anything at the moment, so i will at least get my quote. They are making adjustments to the carb though

Daniel Scully
01-30-2018, 07:40 PM
Fix the auto choke , they worked fine when new and can work the same if repaired correctly. If you can get by , have them set the choke fully open. It will be harder to start cold but you might get by with a few extra pumps on the gas pedal to enrich for a cold start. Worst case is a shot of starting fluid with a inop choke. Or just let it sit until you can get the carb rebuilt correctly.

Blake Sherwin
01-30-2018, 08:28 PM
Is there risk of damage if its driven with fouled plugs?

Daniel Scully
01-30-2018, 10:21 PM
Is there risk of damage if its driven with fouled plugs?

Either clean the plugs or just replace them. You can do no real damage with the choke stuck wide open other than it will be hard to start cold and take a little longer to reach operating temperature , stuck closed will do the damage.

Peter Grave
01-30-2018, 11:54 PM
That shop if BS were electricity they would be a power house. That said 68 Rochester carburators were NOT noted for choke problems. Along with all others here I think choke is sticking due to something bent or gummed up. Best temporary solution have choke set open and just pump the blazes out of the gas peddle cold and it will start. Wait five minutes for it to warm up and all should be well till fixed. The manual choke from the 30s in not the thing to do.

John ED Renstrom
01-30-2018, 11:55 PM
since the choke came on the carburetor, they should have set it when the installed it. don't go back there. you need to ask around or get you the shop manual off e-bay and read up on some of these things. they have good pictures and if you willing to learn mostly a step by step how to do it. I could show you but we are a little far apart.

Paul Steinberg
01-31-2018, 01:00 AM
A sticking choke is a result of the air cleaner being over tightened, and it will warp the upper section of the carburetor. Best to have it professionally rebuilt, where they will know the proper procedure to repair the warping.

Blake Sherwin
01-31-2018, 07:51 AM
Thanks for the comments. At this point the only reason i am at this place (Christian Brothers) is due to the carb warranty. Once i talk to them today i will first ask if they can fix the auto choke since i would imagine thats part of the carb, thus under warranty, otherwise i will ask them to set it open.

I will look for a manual too

Blake Sherwin
01-31-2018, 07:53 AM
A sticking choke is a result of the air cleaner being over tightened, and it will warp the upper section of the carburetor. Best to have it professionally rebuilt, where they will know the proper procedure to repair the warping.

I plan to send it to carburetors unlimited in AZ if my taxes are kind to me

Blake Sherwin
01-31-2018, 11:01 AM
Going to be printing a copy of this for later:

http://www.gmcmi.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Quadrajet_73-Service-Manual.pdf

John ED Renstrom
01-31-2018, 11:20 AM
You will find the shop manual much more handy. I would not go back there for any reasion. There are only 3 parts to the choke that move. My bet is they slapped the rebuilt carb on and ran it out. Now every time you go back it's you need this. Find some one you can trust. If you can't do it yourself,find a mechanic you can trust.

Blake Sherwin
01-31-2018, 01:17 PM
Called the shop again. Said they have the choke open for me and the brushed the plugs so they are all firing, said they dont know how long, but they are good for now.

I asked if there was any reason the auto-choke couldnt be fixed since it was part of the carb which was under warranty. His answer to me was that we could replace it with another re-manufactured carb but it might be the same issue, and parts arent as readily available for quadrajets today.

Whether true or not I am picking it up today and will drive with an open choke and see how it fares. Assuming it is tuned right.

When I have the cash I will send the old carb to Carburetors Unlimited in AZ.

As for starting with the open choke in cold weather am I just going to need to either pump the gas more before start or use spray in the air cleaner while its cold?

Currently I usually pump about 4 in accessory before cranking, but I still usually have to give it alot of gas while cranking to get it going (this may have been partly because of the fouled plugs too i suspect). I also have to give it gas to keep it running while idle which those plugs may have contributed to that a bit as well.

Hoping it will be running alot smoother with this open choke once warmed up

Daniel Scully
01-31-2018, 09:16 PM
I asked if there was any reason the auto-choke couldnt be fixed since it was part of the carb which was under warranty. His answer to me was that we could replace it with another re-manufactured carb but it might be the same issue, and parts arent as readily available for quadrajets today.

Well that is BS , if it is rebuilt it should work as new.

Blake Sherwin
01-31-2018, 10:11 PM
Went to pick up the hearse tonight. They gave me the key, said they tied the choke off and it should start right up.

Started it. Idled a few minutes but it died as soon as i hit the gas. Tried several more times then it just wouldnt start. They came out and messed with it a minute and the guy that set the choke said "see? Its jot going to run with the choke open, demonstrating as he throttled it and it would die.

So firstly i was annoyed that they ziptied the choke open and didnt even bother to test drive it or make sure it runs.

Then went in and asked if someone could help me get the ziptie off to drive it. They just handed me a pair of scissors. Messed with it for 15 min, unable to cut it off with a little pair of scissors, before i went in and someone got some actual wire clippers to cut it off for me.

It IS running better now simply because they brushed off the plugs but im most certainly not going back.

Spark plugs are black so i will be replacing those. I researched and determimed fancy platinum or iridium plugs are a bad idea and will be getting copper ones, but can anyone tell me the proper plug gapping for the 68?

John ED Renstrom
01-31-2018, 10:32 PM
Ok you can not worry about the plugs. they will clean off as soon as you can drive it without it flooding but the problem is not just the choke. it will not flood with the choke open. like I said put the old carburetor back on. I betting they did not put the tin plate back in and it has burnt threw the center of the gasket. it would then let exhaust gas go into the intake and case it to lean out and stall.

remember you had someone drive this car before you brought it, it ran fine for them. your problems started when you pulled into that shop.

Paul Steinberg
01-31-2018, 11:10 PM
.035... thirty five thousands... Point gap is .016 or 30 degrees of dwell. Timing has to be set with the car in neutral, and the parking brake release vacuum line removed and plugged. Don't remember exactly, but I think that the timing is 8 degrees before TDC. (top dead center).

Blake Sherwin
02-01-2018, 09:24 AM
.035... thirty five thousands... Point gap is .016 or 30 degrees of dwell. Timing has to be set with the car in neutral, and the parking brake release vacuum line removed and plugged. Don't remember exactly, but I think that the timing is 8 degrees before TDC. (top dead center).

Thanks, and im not going to trust that the previous owner put the correct plugs in it anyway, so im not going to compare it. I want to make sure I'm buying the recommended OEM plugs. Can anyone give me a suggestion. I googled spark plugs for a 68 cadillac engine and some sites tried to say I needed double platinum which I KNOW is grossly incorrect

Peter Grave
02-01-2018, 11:40 AM
I would use whatever the recomended AC plug is or its interchange no need to get exotic, I also would leave plugs alone unless they foul out again. A recent go round with my wifes Audi A8 shows how this goes everywhere. Problem on recent 100 miles round trip car picked up a dead miss. My Snap On scanner will not talk to this Kraut car I call my godson (Foreign car nut) where do I take this? he tells me of shop that is "reasonable". We go next day less than 24 hours later the call comes all fixed $520.00 YIKES!!! The charge includes two new coil packs ($52.00 each) and Eight new spark plugs @ $20.78 each. Now lets get real here at home had my scanner worked the REAL story is there was a bad coil pack just like my Crown Vics get and that would have done the job for less than $52.00 due to trade discount. Trust me I am getting a scanner that will read kraut cars. One repair here will pay for the scanner.

Blake Sherwin
02-01-2018, 04:38 PM
Got some ACDelco plugs during lunch today. I may take a look at one of my current plugs to see how they look and keep these in the coach. Shop made it sound like these plugs were barely firing. If it starts fouling again I will start replacing

John ED Renstrom
02-01-2018, 09:25 PM
No you need to fix the reason they are fouling. Fouling is a result of another problem. From the discussion it's flooding. Fix that problem clean and regap the p!ugs and you will be good to go. Replacing the plugs now will most likly only result in the new ones soon fouling.

Now my stead fast rule when you have trouble like you are is to go back the the last thing you fixed before the problems started. You then correct what was done wrong then.

Blake Sherwin
02-05-2018, 10:09 AM
No you need to fix the reason they are fouling. Fouling is a result of another problem. From the discussion it's flooding. Fix that problem clean and regap the p!ugs and you will be good to go. Replacing the plugs now will most likly only result in the new ones soon fouling.

Now my stead fast rule when you have trouble like you are is to go back the the last thing you fixed before the problems started. You then correct what was done wrong then.

Your right, problem seems to have started with this "new" carburetor. I do have a spare set of plugs ready to go, but not installing yet. As soon as I can afford it I will send my old carb to be rebuilt. I think I have a vacuum leak now though. Drove it Sunday and its whistling loud from the engine, When its warm enough again I will see if I can find any broken hoses

John ED Renstrom
02-05-2018, 11:06 AM
The biggest part of any tune up is fix the vacuum leaks. But if you heard it driving it's a big one and probily the source of your problems. Low vacuum will cause it to run rich.

Blake Sherwin
02-06-2018, 05:19 PM
And now its whining when accelerating. Odd that all these problems started after getting it back from the shop. Still not going back there though

John ED Renstrom
02-06-2018, 09:34 PM
Don't get froggy on it. Did you find the vacuum leak?

Blake Sherwin
02-07-2018, 09:18 AM
Don't get froggy on it. Did you find the vacuum leak?

Its been consistently 20 degrees here and usually windy, so I havent even opened the hood yet. I am hoping maybe on this or an upcoming weekend the wind dies down and the sun shines to make the 20 degree weather a little more workable.

Everyone tells me the whining is likely an alternator pulley, I will check fluids first though. I previously was unable to find the power steering fluid on the last few checks. But I dont suspect it to be power steering since I hear whining when driving in a straight line. Trans leaks were all fixed, but I will be checking that to be extra sure.

I was reading that a good way to find vacuum leaks is to spray carb cleaner around hoses and listen if the engine revs up a bit.

John ED Renstrom
02-07-2018, 10:31 AM
Go to ebay get you a owners manual if you font have one and a shop manual. They will help you.

Blake Sherwin
02-07-2018, 12:10 PM
Go to ebay get you a owners manual if you font have one and a shop manual. They will help you.

Thanks, I found a reprint of the 68 cadillac shop manual for $29, will grab that come payday.

Blake Sherwin
02-13-2018, 01:19 PM
So it occurs to me that I currently have every symptom of incorrectly gapped plugs. This week there are going to be 2 warm days so i plan on taking off work a few hours early to check this. I suppose its entirely possible that I am running rich because the previous owner didnt gap their plugs, at least from what I've been reading it sounds like it could be one of several contributing factors.

I am actually kinda hoping the gapping is all wrong because then I can fix that and see how things run.

Paul Steinberg
02-13-2018, 01:59 PM
Most times, the plugs are properly gapped right out of the box. If you are going to be removing the plugs, you might as well just replace them all, since new plugs aren't that expensive. There is a better chance that the plug wires are defective than the plugs themselves. Also, the "dwell" of the ignition points should be checked, and the timing properly set.

Blake Sherwin
02-13-2018, 02:31 PM
Most times, the plugs are properly gapped right out of the box. If you are going to be removing the plugs, you might as well just replace them all, since new plugs aren't that expensive. There is a better chance that the plug wires are defective than the plugs themselves. Also, the "dwell" of the ignition points should be checked, and the timing properly set.

I had thought that too, but of these 8 ACDelco plugs i bought awhile back I checked them all today and some were all the way to 0.40. Got them all gapped though. Current wires are new, I do know that much

Blake Sherwin
02-16-2018, 11:12 AM
Changed all my plugs yesterday. A few of them were soaking wet with gas too.

A few of those boots were stuck to the plugs so I ended up breaking 2 of them. I'm picking up a new set of wires tomorrow morning. That passenger side farthest back plug though was a bear to get out. My ratchet was a little too bulky to get at it so it was quite a challenge.

Also was considering trying some seafoam

Peter Grave
02-16-2018, 11:31 AM
Doubtful that choke is closing better chance at winning Power Ball. The gas additive not a bad idea to get rid of any accumulated water. I think the reality is the carb just needs to be rebuilt properly when the budget allows. Glad to hear you are on the road its needs the cobwebs shook out.

Blake Sherwin
02-16-2018, 11:44 AM
I know its really hard to tell which one is the old spark plug right?

the tips of the plugs that the boot goes over, those metal tips were just falling off when I was pulling them off.

Peter Grave
02-16-2018, 11:47 AM
Gap on new plug looks wrong what do you think Ed?

Blake Sherwin
02-16-2018, 12:01 PM
Gap on new plug looks wrong what do you think Ed?

I hope not, I measured them all to 35 thousandths last week

Peter Grave
02-16-2018, 12:09 PM
Hard to tell form picture like a Dr. wanated second opinion.

John ED Renstrom
02-16-2018, 10:06 PM
Now the key when your looking at plugs it to see how they are burning. If they are fouling ore have a oil build up. The tip of that one you show looks to be a normal burning plug.

John ED Renstrom
02-16-2018, 10:25 PM
Gaping plugs is a learned thing. Now your looking at a angle on it but if you hold it square in front of you the ground strap should be square with the power tip. I would say that one is at a angle. If it is the spark will jump to the low spot and fire off center. Now the 70 is the second highest compression in the 472 line up so one most likly will not notice one not firing as good as it could. But one should run the new plugs a month or so and pull them to see how they look. If they are all burning clean then if things are good regap and enjoy the new car.

Paul Steinberg
02-17-2018, 01:14 AM
The plug on the right is an older Autolite plug, and it appears that you have a valve cover leak. Get some dielectric grease, and put a light smear on each of the plug porcelains as you replace the plug wires. It will make it easier to get the plugs wires off the next time. Also keeps moisture from causing a poor plug connection.

Blake Sherwin
02-19-2018, 11:16 AM
A good amount of the old plugs the tip was burned white. Also several of old ones were bent down, almost looks like whoever put them in banged them against the block on accident as they put them in, bending them.

So over the weekend heres all I did:

- 8 new spark plugs
- 8 new spark plug wires (with boot grease and dialectric on the threads)
- 5oz seafoam in the crankcase
- 11oz seafoam in gas tank
- Full can of Seafoam top engine cleaner straight down the carb while pulling the throttle around 1500.

Before the seafoam my engine would shake aggressively at idle. 10 min after the seafoam it stopped shaking and was running alot smoother. So it did help some

I've driven twice so far since and so far there has been no throttle cutting or hesitation, BUT these are new plugs and they might not have had time to foul yet, so im not going to get my hopes up.

Heres how it runs after:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deU8bclkJS0

John ED Renstrom
02-19-2018, 11:30 AM
Putting the grease on the threads is not necessary. What you are experiencing is setting problems. Carbon build in with short runs. The sea foam has helped to pass it threw the systen. Drive it, thats what it needs. Not long idle time but a trip out were you can get it up to speed for some time.

Blake Sherwin
02-19-2018, 11:42 AM
Putting the grease on the threads is not necessary. What you are experiencing is setting problems. Carbon build in with short runs. The sea foam has helped to pass it threw the systen. Drive it, thats what it needs. Not long idle time but a trip out were you can get it up to speed for some time.

Yeah I'm going to drive it to work tomorrow which is around 15 miles. I had no idea that plug was indicative of a bad valve cover gasket. Googled after I read Paul's comment and I see now. I'm going to add that to my list of things to take care of asap.

My top two items I need to address now are my driver-front brakes squealing and now this valve cover.

Paul Steinberg
02-19-2018, 02:44 PM
Squeeling brakes trumps all other problems. Fix this first, or at least determine what is the root of the squeeling issue.

Blake Sherwin
02-20-2018, 09:00 AM
Well it drove great for awhile. Drove it to work today and almost didnt make it.

About the time I got into Tulsa the hesitation/cutting came back worse than ever. Drives fine until about 15 or 20mph if I feather it. Try to go past that though and it fights.

I'm not sure I will be able to make it home from work today, unless I can work a miracle during my lunch hour. We will see.

Blake Sherwin
02-20-2018, 09:18 AM
A co-worker suggested that maybe the fuel filter is getting clogged. May check that at lunch. I'm not sure that thats been changed

Blake Sherwin
02-20-2018, 01:05 PM
Coincidentally I was recording video of my drive this morning when the issue started up again. So if anyone is wanting to see/hear this firsthand:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmqSFGnCaWE

John ED Renstrom
02-20-2018, 06:48 PM
the fuel filter would be more of a constant problem. but I would not hurt to change it and see if there was any rust coming out of the suction side. the cutting out at a consent rpm under load maybe electrical. you haven't said anything about the condition of the cap, rotor or points. I could not tell if it was back firing or not. but a bad wire connection will do it also. a vibration could wiggle it. one way to test that would be to run a jumper wire from the positive battery post to the ignition side of the coil the drive it and see if it stops. this set of cars are known for problems with the switch.

Blake Sherwin
02-20-2018, 09:07 PM
Years ago i drove an 88 dakota that would stall completely sometimes when i would hit the gas. It was injected though. If i recall it was an ignition coil or something that was severed.

This issue is a bit similar but not quite the same.

Paul Steinberg
02-21-2018, 12:36 AM
Feeding 12 volts to the ignition coil for more than a minute or two, will burn the points, leading to them failing. That should only be done to determine if there is a problem with wiring. I am betting on the problem being a clogged fuel filter sock on the pick up tube. Problem is that most times you need to drop the tank to check / replace it. On the Miller Meteors, some have a access panel under the rear compartment that allows access. It can also be a clogged fuel line, and if you want to check this, remove the line from the tank, and at the fuel pump, and blow high pressure air from the rear of the car to the front. One other possibility, is that either or both of the rubber lines from the tank to the fuel pump, might be failing from old age. They are easy to change, and relatively inexpensive. If the clamps are old and tired, buy new clamps also.

Blake Sherwin
02-21-2018, 09:01 AM
I dont have access to high pressure air at the moment, but I may be able to ask some friends.

Whats strange to me is that replacing and/or cleaning my spark plugs seems to remedy the issue for a day or two, which seems odd if its fuel related. But it does make sense if its fuel related, especially if it got worse after seafoam.

I ended up having it towed home last night. Wasnt about to try driving it home in freezing rain when all I can do is sputter along. After the tow truck dropped me down into the street I got in to pull it into the driveway and the thing wouldnt turn over. I thought "are you kidding me?"

Lights on dash would come on and battery gauge was showing fully charged, but turned the key and nothing happened. We put it in neutral and pushed it back, then tried to push forward (in neutral) but it wouldnt push forward, almost like it was in gear still.

I got in at that point and turned the key and it started right up. And I cringed as I drove it up into my driveway after cold starting, It whined all the way up.

Paul Steinberg
02-21-2018, 09:34 AM
Wait for warmer weather, and then go through all the systems methodically, until you know it is going to be a reliable car. Paying for unnecessary towing services, could go a long way to fixing the problems.

Blake Sherwin
02-21-2018, 10:49 AM
Thankfully several weeks ago I signed up for AAA, so I used up one of my 4 free tows this year. My wife told me im no longer allowed to take my toys to work

John ED Renstrom
02-21-2018, 11:06 AM
You problem is the switch is bad. Not the tumbler but the switch its self. They are a bake o lit cri ped onto a pot metal housing. The pot metal looses its tension after awhile this lets the contacts arc. This give you these intermittent problems. I can think of a 68 that went threw about 3 of us before the problem was found and fixed now the forth owner is happy as a clam with it.
You can't gind a factory switch any more. You will have to go with a aftermarket one.

Blake Sherwin
02-21-2018, 02:18 PM
You problem is the switch is bad. Not the tumbler but the switch its self. They are a bake o lit cri ped onto a pot metal housing. The pot metal looses its tension after awhile this lets the contacts arc. This give you these intermittent problems. I can think of a 68 that went threw about 3 of us before the problem was found and fixed now the forth owner is happy as a clam with it.
You can't gind a factory switch any more. You will have to go with a aftermarket one.

Would I be looking for something like this? An ignition switch?

https://www.carid.com/american-autowire/ignition-switch.html?relationshipId=1160746609&childId=551421999&gclid=Cj0KCQiAzrTUBRCnARIsAL0mqcx44sUspq_yvpHpgDmS Qclc4HuT1iakOPX-7N-4-sn172sCp6Si2PYaAl11EALw_wcB

John ED Renstrom
02-21-2018, 09:20 PM
that universal one is the one is the only one available for that car.

Peter Grave
02-21-2018, 10:50 PM
Avoid the universal one if you can its installation is way beyond your skills. I just checked ebay and nothing there; I have a 68 Sedan Deville in the yard. I will have to check it. It will be a couple of days as its raining here and swampy where the car is standby/

Peter Grave
02-21-2018, 11:22 PM
Just did some checking this switch must be troublesome as its rare and expensive on the parts market. Perhaps someone else on this site knows of one as I said I will check the one I have. Problem here is your original switch plugs in with a large multi wire plug. The universal being offered has lugs so all your switch wires would have to be cut from plug matched up to correct lug on aftermarket switch and lugs installed on each wire. NOT A FUN JOB. Oh yeah also it appears a 1967 switch is different.

Daniel Scully
02-21-2018, 11:50 PM
Here ya go . Ouch :eek::eek:

Nos Gm Delco Cadillac Ignition Switch 1968 Original Eldorado Oem New Rare 68 on 2040-parts.com
US $465.00 (http://www.2040-parts.com/nos-gm-delco-cadillac-ignition-switch-1968-original-eldorado-oem-new-rare-68-i785109/)

Up for sale is a new old stock, GM Cadillac ignition switch. It is in excellent, unused new old stock condition and is complete with the original GM box! The GM part number is 1116701, please do your homework on the part number and your application. This is correct for all 1968 Cadillac models. These are getting hard to find, especially in such nice, NOS condition.

Paul Steinberg
02-22-2018, 02:13 AM
Although I don't believe that it is an ignition switch problem, and that you should properly diagnose the problem, rather than throwing $$$$ and parts at it hoping that you will resolve the problem.
Here are the pictures of the ignition switch.

Blake Sherwin
02-22-2018, 10:04 AM
Thanks, its good to know what im looking for if I need one. I need to address my fuel lines first anyways. I'll check my filter first and see where that leads me.

Peter Grave
02-22-2018, 11:08 AM
Once again I agree with Paul don't just throw parts at it you can in fact make the problem worse. Just like a doctor diagnose and treat don't just say take a pill.

John ED Renstrom
02-22-2018, 11:29 AM
I got about a year doing that with one Tony did it first It took Bill about 8 months to brake down and chang the switch so Gorge could have a car that would run and start. You want to test it. Run a hot wire from the battery to a line drop resister the to the switched side of the coil. Drive the car. It runs good you found it. A used switch like the one i have on the wall might or might not work any better. The new old one the same. The problem is the back gets lose from the housing and once you burn the contacts it's toast.

John ED Renstrom
02-22-2018, 10:22 PM
OK here is the problem with the switches. you can see off this harness were the arcing had gotten so bad that it melted the wire holder. it is also the accessory wire that had the melt down. I don't remember what the holder is of from it was this switch just put it on here for protection.

the problem is they held the rear fixed contacts on to the housing with the 3 folds of the base metal. one or two will get loose over time. opening up the gap.

causing the current to jump the gap. the wider it gets the hotter it gets. till things burn up. now of course this can accrue anywhere between the switch and the points so all those wire ends and connections should be checked also. but in a 68 my money is on the switch. this one came out of a 67 car. not sure it's the same as the 68 and I have no idea if it is any good.

you ever heard the expression don't stand near the high wall

Peter Grave
02-23-2018, 12:22 AM
Ed you jogged my memory I have seen what you showed many years ago. If I remember the connector was melted the same way. The issue was the connector was a little loose on the blade on the switch this made a slightly loose (read that resistive connection)to the switch this makes heat heat increases the resistance and makes more heat. The next step is meltdown. The mistake is GMs the load is too heavy for the type connector used sort of like trying to run your air conditioner and tv off the Harbor Freight free extention cord. I think Blake could take the bottom cover off the steering column and look up and see the back of the switch (with a light) and check for melt damage. One thing is for sure with the cost of a new switch you need to be very sure thats the problem. The problem could be the plug not the switch. Remember the following year GM went to the locking column switch and I do not remember any trouble with them

John ED Renstrom
02-23-2018, 10:17 AM
Nor trouble with the 64 and down they used the stud and bolt. As i recall this wire bundle was out of the 68 i had. i got the switch out of the yard and did the replace the conductors thing Bill still ended up replacing the switch shortly after getting the car.

But fore my experience you better off going the aftermarket rout if you want to drive the car. No since replacing a damaged weak link with a new one. Just be sure you solder the connectors after you crimp them on.

Blake Sherwin
02-23-2018, 11:42 AM
I appreciate the information. Once I check into this possible fuel problem I will do as Peter mentioned and look at the steering column. If it does seem to be the problem maybe I can take it out and take it to O'reillys and see what kind of similar aftermarket ones I can find.

Blake Sherwin
02-28-2018, 09:10 AM
Well I never did change that fuel filter. Tried over this past weekend but someone has put some sort of glue on the nut attaching the metal fuel line to the carburetor. Could not get that thing off no matter how hard I tried. I did drive it though and it drove perfectly fine.

Will have to try this again soon, the fuel line is positioned right up against where the timing belt starts so theres about an inch of room to fit a wrench in there, making it quite a difficult thing to get at.

Makes me wonder if when the shop that put this carburetor in told me "we had to use a few parts off the old carburetor" maybe they meant this glued piece because they couldnt get it off. I dont know

But whether they re-used the part or put the glue on themselves, I'm still a little annoyed about it.

Peter Grave
02-28-2018, 10:10 AM
Can you post a picture of this "glue job"? I gotta see it. Thanks

Daniel Scully
02-28-2018, 10:44 AM
Can you post a picture of this "glue job"? I gotta see it. Thanks

You can almost guess they stripped the inlet nut on the carb and JB weld to the rescue.:eek:

John ED Renstrom
02-28-2018, 10:48 AM
The fuel lines can be s wrestling match. You will have to remove a few things to replace that filter. But think about it you drove it again with no problems. Fuel problems vary seldom are intermediate. You may have knocked a few big pieces down off the filter to get fuel flowing enough to run it. But i never got that luckly.

To change that one you will most likely need to pull the belts and the shroud at least. One can remove the line from the fuel pump and the carb and possibly work it down enough to remove it. But once you bend a steel line it's a fight.

Blake Sherwin
02-28-2018, 01:24 PM
The fuel lines can be s wrestling match. You will have to remove a few things to replace that filter. But think about it you drove it again with no problems. Fuel problems vary seldom are intermediate. You may have knocked a few big pieces down off the filter to get fuel flowing enough to run it. But i never got that luckly.

To change that one you will most likely need to pull the belts and the shroud at least. One can remove the line from the fuel pump and the carb and possibly work it down enough to remove it. But once you bend a steel line it's a fight.

Thats one thing that worries me, everyone tells me NOT to touch the timing belt unless I know what im doing, so im a little hesitant to take that off.

I need to change my oil after that seafoam, I changed it in January but its now almost solid black. So I am considering getting oil done and asking for an estimate on replacing the filter if I supply the part.

Then again if they are going to be removing stuff it will likely be more than I want to pay in any case. I want to do it myself but im also worried im going to screw something up even more by removing the timing belt

Peter Grave
02-28-2018, 02:23 PM
Dude: The 68 Cadillac DOES NOT HAVE A TIMING BELT it has a chain and I have NEVER known a chain to go bad on one.

Daniel Scully
02-28-2018, 02:26 PM
This does not have a timing belt are you refereeing to the fan belt? If you have not gotten one a factory shop is invaluable for working on the vehicle.

Blake Sherwin
02-28-2018, 03:41 PM
I had no idea about it not having a timing belt. I had just assumed it did. Glad to know that. I still dont have a shop manual yet. I am going to get one here eventually

Paul Steinberg
02-28-2018, 06:52 PM
Dude: The 68 Cadillac DOES NOT HAVE A TIMING BELT it has a chain and I have NEVER known a chain to go bad on one.

my 1969 had a bad chain, and it jumped 2 teeth before I got to fixing it. The first tooth, just made it run bad. The second time it barely ran at all. Started great, but just no power. New timing chain and gears fixed the problem. Also had to remove the heads because of bad exhaust leak and manifold bolts breaking.

John ED Renstrom
02-28-2018, 10:14 PM
68 is the only one that has that filter between the pump and the carburetor. and as I recall at the time I had that 68 the only filter I could get was a none AC one. the AC one had a return line going from it, the non AC one did not. just glanced threw my pictures of it and I don't have one of that set up . I'm recalling I blew it out and added a inline one in the jumper from the fuel line to the fuel pump. the 69 did not use it either as we replace all the lined on it. 68 was the first year for the 472 and has a few things different then the other years.

did you get that shop Manuel off e-bay yet? that will give you step by step direction on how to do things.

Blake Sherwin
03-01-2018, 10:33 AM
I believe the mystery is solved. I polled some friends and most of them said this is thread tape/teflon tape

John ED Renstrom
03-02-2018, 10:05 AM
So your thinking of changing the filter off the new carburetor,which would have had a new filter on it. Don't mess with that. Vary easy to have problems.
The 68 should have a inline filter just above the fuel pump it was the only year the did that. Trace that fuel line to were it goes down in front of the engine. Some were just under the power steering pump there should be a canister in the fuel line. If it not there some one has removed it all ready. As i said they are an discontinued item. Then keep tracing the line back to see if they put a aftermarket one inline. Normal place to splice it in would be the rubber jumpers. At the tank to the frame the frame to the engine.

Leave that new carburetor alone it looks to me like they glued the first fitting on it. That is the point were you can destroy your investment in a hurry.

Blake Sherwin
03-02-2018, 11:19 AM
Thanks, will try tracing the line this weekend. Another goal of mine is to use up all the ethanol gas and try putting non-ethanol gas to see if it shows any improvements. I know ethanol gas has a shorter shelf life, so its possible i still have some bad gas mixed in since this wasnt drive often previously

Blake Sherwin
03-04-2018, 10:33 AM
Well yesterday i drove my 4 year old son to the park and back. It sat a few hours at home and i went to start it and it started rough and hisses and whined loud then died.

Turns over real good just never fires up, but sometimes tries to fire up.

Im guessing the hiss was a vacuum leak so im going to look for hose breaks today

Paul Steinberg
03-04-2018, 10:53 AM
Sounds like a jumped timing chain to me. Take out the left front spark plug, and with the assistance of a helper, put a socket and breaker bar on the crankshaft pullet. Have the helper pull the breaker bar towards the right, while you observe the timing mark. When you see it coming up to the "0" mark, hold your finger over the spark plug hole. You should hear or feel the air pressure. Then when it gets to the "0", remove the distributor cap and push the breaker bar toward the drivers side. Observe if the rotor tip moves. If it doesn't move immediately, then that indicates a worn timing chain. Then when it does move, go in the opposite direction to see if it takes a few degrees of pulling, before the rotor moves again. This will indicate the amount of looseness that there is in the chain. I had to replace mine at about 75,000 miles. Worn timing chains are what causes the crankshaft and the camshaft to move out of sync, when the chain jumps a tooth. This requires the services of a professional to repair.

Blake Sherwin
03-04-2018, 10:57 AM
Hmm, i will see if i can do that. I dont really have a helper, will see what i can do

Blake Sherwin
03-04-2018, 12:23 PM
It started, so i messed with the carb and discovered this. Im not carb expert but pretty sure it shouldnt be hissing like this.

https://youtu.be/zjm9TX-HPzQ

Blake Sherwin
03-04-2018, 08:07 PM
Well i told this hissing is completely normal for a carb. It wasnt making that noise last time when i was puttimg in seafoam so thought it was abnormal.

John ED Renstrom
03-04-2018, 08:35 PM
change that switch :rolleyes:

Blake Sherwin
03-04-2018, 09:45 PM
change that switch :rolleyes:

What switch?

John ED Renstrom
03-05-2018, 11:13 AM
The car has a intermittent open in the electrical circuit. All the problems are most likely the ignition switch. But it could be as simple as the run wire off the starter or Loose wire on the coil. Mechanical problems don't normally come and go. These kind of things are frustrating not easy to trace and make you want to dump the car in a hurry. Every thing you have shown can be explained wit a intermittent open. The hissing in the carburetor was most likely a small backfire putting presser into the carb. The hissing is it going out. With the engine not running there is no vacuum.

The weak link in the 68 modal was the ignition switch. Check all the connections between the distributor and the coil the coil and the switch the switch and the starter. If they are good it's the switch. Once again simple test is the jumper wire. A piece if wire long enough to go from the pos side of the battery to the Ignition side of the coil.it. Won't start but your wire in place. If it starts take the jumper off. If it dies when you do that you have a positive test of a open circuit begween the coil and the battery. If your driving it and it starts acting up put the jumper wire on . If it starts running smooth the you have a positive test of a intermittent open between the oil and the battery. As Paul said don't run the car for any length of time with the jumper in place. You will burn the points up. But as it starts on 12 volts a short deration to test to Rule out a electrical
problem is in order before you dpend money you don't need to

Blake Sherwin
03-05-2018, 12:02 PM
Thanks, circling back to the previous talks about OEM being expensive and the aftermarket being a pain to install:

In your opinions, am I better off dishing out for the expensive original:
http://www.2040-parts.com/nos-gm-delco-cadillac-ignition-switch-1968-original-eldorado-oem-new-rare-68-i785109/

Or finding a good aftermarket for less and just paying a mechanic to properly do the job?

At $465 for the part, I'm not sure if I would just be better off getting something aftermarket and having it converted

My concern is that if I spend $465 or more on an original part and if that part is prone to failure anyway I'm going to eventually end up in the same situation again.

John ED Renstrom
03-05-2018, 01:05 PM
I'll send you the one I have on the wall. but it may not be any better then the one you have. I would not pay that kind of money and go back to a original one.
go to a place like USA parts, Caddy Daddy, Fisk or one of the other people that deal in replacement parts for vintage caddys and get the one they recommend.

put first you need to know that it is the problem. there is no since in swapping parts just to hope you get the right one.

now if you look threw here you can see all I did on this one. when I sold it it was just Doing the might start problem you have. Bill put up with things your describing till he swapped the switch for a universal one and then the car ran fine. ttps://www.dropshots.com/jer57747/albums/308015/2013-04-04/11:01:45

Blake Sherwin
03-14-2018, 10:49 AM
I havent had time to check any of this yet, but I did take it for its' weekly drive over this past weekend, I had less than a quarter tank of E10 left, so I diluted it with a full tank of 0% ethanol 91 octane pure gas. Its already running much better. I know this isnt going to solve all my problems, but now I can actually floor the gas without it cutting out (not that I ever do floor it, but for testing). Before if I tried that it would choke and hesitate.

Someone else on the cadillac forums had also suggested that there may be a wire harness coming from the starter that could have melted or something, so I have added that to my list of things to investigate.

I am optimistic on the gas though. I went on about a 15-20 minute drive and was able to get up to 60 without any problems. 50 used to be a challenge before.

John ED Renstrom
03-14-2018, 11:00 AM
As i said it starts on 12 volts directly from the starter. The in the run position on the switch it runs on the risister wire from the switch. No that high compression 472 will nor run good on any fuel under 90 octane 91 is the requirement.

Blake Sherwin
03-14-2018, 01:14 PM
As i said it starts on 12 volts directly from the starter. The in the run position on the switch it runs on the risister wire from the switch. No that high compression 472 will nor run good on any fuel under 90 octane 91 is the requirement.

good to know, had no idea 91 was actually a requirement. I'm hoping to get some free time this weekend maybe to look close at wiring, thought I would last weekend but we were too busy.

Ignition doesnt get warm after a drive it seems. Going to drive it to my dads on easter, so that will hopefully be a good distance drive to test if the issue is going to come back.

Philip Scanio
03-14-2018, 06:11 PM
Blake, Do you have a station in town that sells 0 Ethanol gas? What brand? Thanks, Philip

Blake Sherwin
03-14-2018, 06:33 PM
Yes, there is a Shell in Owasso with 0 ethanol 91 octane. I cant get 93 though

Blake Sherwin
03-15-2018, 12:59 PM
Its a good possibility that a previous owner installed one of the $12 universal ignition switches. Someone else suggested I use a cheap one to test and linked this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1946-1968-Cadillac-Ignition-Switch-Universal-complete-with-keys/222847203065?hash=item33e2ba76f9:g:PPUAAOSw0UdXqec P

This looks EXACTLY like what I have now, which may be a big part of the issue if this is cheap switch cant handle what going through it. Mine even has that tiny little lockbox looking key with it.

John ED Renstrom
03-15-2018, 09:25 PM
that switch is fully capable of handling the load . but you can't have it as yours has a GM key. or at least you showed us what you said was your switch key and it was a GM key.

Blake Sherwin
03-16-2018, 09:17 AM
The key I showed was my door key. Ignition key is different. This is my ignition key

Peter Grave
03-16-2018, 10:39 AM
Son you have the CHEAP CRAP switch. I know its the cheapie cause it has the double sided key. The better ones had a heavier single sided key. There is way to beat the too heavy load on the switch. You may have to do some rewiring and use a relay.

John ED Renstrom
03-16-2018, 10:46 AM
Since it's all ready aftermarket just get a good one and replace it. Some one as all ready done the cut and splice. I'm betting one of there crimped on conductors is lose. Solder all them and the problem goes away. That door key that was not cut for your doors was most likely not even for that car.

Blake Sherwin
03-16-2018, 11:33 AM
Thanks, I know the OEM part number is 1116701 D-1440A

Offhand does anyone know of any particular aftermarket switch that will swap cleanly without having to make further modifications. I would like to find something that I can install without risk of screwing it up more.

No problem if no one knows offhand. I will do some research, but if you happen to know of one it would be appreciated. Only thing I've seen so far is the $465 NOS Delco switch

Blake Sherwin
03-16-2018, 11:35 AM
Some one as all ready done the cut and splice.
I see what your saying. I may just have to pull it out, take some pics and compare them on the internet.

Peter Grave
03-16-2018, 06:17 PM
Right now it would be foolish to even try to go back to the original switch. The best bet for a good aftermarket is find one made in the USA with a brand name. Replacing should be easy except for the tight quaters you have to work in. I am with Ed if you can solder (rosen core not acid core) the terminal end where the wire goes into the end that will ensure a good connection to the terminal. If you can buy or borrow an old Weller 250 watt soldering gun thats what to use . If you can't find one I'll loan you one of mine.

John ED Renstrom
03-16-2018, 09:20 PM
most defiantly your in to a look see before you can decide what direction to go. there is no way to say what someone else did with out a eye ball on it. but here is a good aftermarket switch you can have it as soon as it put the original one back on

Blake Sherwin
03-19-2018, 09:41 AM
I had a thought last night as I was going to sleep. I know that back when I had a shop working on this I had them tie the choke fully open.

I was entertaining a "what if" scenario in my head last night and thought "what if" as I increase the thottle the choke plate is falling down to the closed position until I back off the gas and press it again to raise it back open?

I recall them telling me the auto-choke wasnt working, and when it was zip tied it simply wouldnt run. BUT I'm thinking what if I zip tied the choke, not so its fully open, but only so it cant fully close, say tie it so it can only get 1/4 closed or so.

I figured once I get good and warmed up, I can shut off and apply the ziptie with some slack, then drive around a bit.

This way if my issue changes from complete choking to just a loss of power due to it only partially closing I can isolate for sure if its choke related.

Granted I'm no expert yet with the carb, but its something I was thinking about, this is something I can test first without having to dismantle anything.

If this test is unfruitful then I can take off that switch and have a look (probably want to do that either way though).

Does this make any sense or am I talking nonsense?

Paul Steinberg
03-19-2018, 11:41 AM
You clearly have a carburetor problem, and it is only a guess on my part, however, if the choke isn't working properly, and is flopping around, it needs to be fixed properly. By using the word "it", I am referring to the complete and whole carburetor. Anything less isn't going to result in favorable results. In fact, once you have the carburetor fixed, that doesn't mean that the engine is going to be better at all, since the defective carburetor could be masking other engine issues. You fix that which is an obvious problem first, and if some other issue is then identified, you either fix that one, or do a comprehensive examination of the engine as a whole, and determine how you want to attack the problem or problems. There are 3 things that are needed for a working engine... i.e. Fuel, Air & Combustion. You have a fuel problem, and once you correct that, the air issue will correct itself, since it is infinitely variable by the carburetor. The next is combustion... i.e. Spark plugs, spark plug wires, distributor and its associated parts, and finally, compression of the engine and its associated parts. By this, I am referring to piston rings, valves, cam to crankshaft relationship, etc.. If any of these are a problem, which you can't tell without a comprehensive examination, you will never resolve your problem(s).
You need a good working carburetor no matter what else has to be repaired, so that should be your starting point. It doesn't take a lot of expertise to remove it from the engine, and once repaired, to reinstall it. Many carburetor remanufacturers will do all the preliminary settings, so it should work properly right out of the box. It may require some fine tuning, and you can have that done by a professional once you have the car running properly.

Blake Sherwin
03-19-2018, 12:06 PM
I learned today that apparently many shops believe quadrajets are all the same and part of my problem may be that I have the wrong QJet. I'm going to check the number tonight and see if it matches what is correct, and also run some tests on the choke with it warm.

A paste from the cadillac/lasalle forum:

My thought has been, and is, that you have a carburetor problem. Now that you have mentioned that a "repair shop" put a rebuilt Q-Jet on your engine, I am even more suspicious of the carburetor. GM used Q-jets pretty much across the board on their engines for many years starting in 1967 (on Cadillacs, other GM lines earlier), there are those that think they are all the same (or close enough) that any old replacement Q-Jet will do --- absolutely not so! Do you have any idea if the shop put on a NUMBERS CORRECT replacement Q-Jet for your 1968 Cadillac engine? Every Q-Jet I am familiar with has a number sequence on the carburetor body that identifies the year and division make engine (Cadillac, Olds, Chevy, etc.) that that particular carburetor was designed and calibrated for, as well as what transmission it had. Many Q-Jets may FIT on your engine and work to some extent, but they may well not work properly.


On our older cars, owner knowledge and education is most important! Many shops and so-called mechanics these days are as lost looking at and working on 1968 Cadillac as I would be working on a modern fuel injected engine.

http://www.carburetion.com/quadnumber.htm

Note that it points out at the early Q-Jets up until the early '68 models had a stamped, round disc with identifying numbers attached to the carburetor while all later models had the numbers stamped into the carb body. With your '68 the original carb could have had the separate attached tag OR the numbers stamped into the body. My experience with Q-Jets is that it is often (maybe always) better to have the original one off your engine rebuilt by a good carb overhaul shop --- there are plenty around and many of us here can recommend a good one.

Check the numbers on your present carb using the link I posted above and see what it is really for.

Paul Steinberg
03-19-2018, 06:15 PM
If you feel that your carburetor has incorrect parts in it, then I suggest that you contact a fellow in Arizona that has shelves full of correct carburetor cores that he can rebuild for you. He specializes in the Quadrajet carburetor. Without his permission, I will not post his information on line, however, you can contact me for his contact information.
You could also send him your old one, and have him restore it with correct parts as necessary.
Just keep in mind, not to remove the large fuel nut, because 99% if the people that do, that don't understand that it is a very fine thread, will ruin the threads in the carburetor. That can be a very expensive mistake.

Blake Sherwin
03-19-2018, 08:58 PM
I called him in January and i do plan on using him. I just need to gather the funds. Old carb is in a box ready to go.

This evening i tested if my choke was closing, by using a series of zipties to "block" the plate from fully closing but still allow movement. Drove around the block and issue didnt change. So that rules out the possibility of the choke closing while driving. I removed all the ties afterward

Tomorrow i will try to find and trace wires from the starter.

For that ignition switch i need to figure out if it comes out the bottom or i need to remove the dash panels.

John ED Renstrom
03-19-2018, 09:59 PM
that book off e-bay will help you take this apart and fix them right. it save you more money then it costs. there is a screwed on plate under the steering column. take it off and the universal one is held on by that knurled outer ring. it will drop out the threw that hole you uncovered. caution do one thing at a time don't have a lot of this apart at the same time.

you can read the number off your carb and go to the carb shop web site and see if it is the right one for your car. it should be left hand rear if it's stamped

Blake Sherwin
03-20-2018, 12:41 PM
Also it was pointed out that I have a hose missing from my carb dashpot. i need to get a T hose for it

John ED Renstrom
03-20-2018, 03:32 PM
the one that goes to it is the outside right one it will be ported and that not the dash pot that is the vacuum pull off for the choke. it's function is to crack the chock open when it fires. the dash pot is one the other side it's function is the prevent it from stalling when you return it to idle. once again I tell buy that book. it would look like you have a few things mixed up there. any one set will. give you problems.

Blake Sherwin
03-20-2018, 04:03 PM
the one that goes to it is the outside right one it will be ported and that not the dash pot that is the vacuum pull off for the choke. it's function is to crack the chock open when it fires. the dash pot is one the other side it's function is the prevent it from stalling when you return it to idle. once again I tell buy that book. it would look like you have a few things mixed up there. any one set will. give you problems.

You say its the right-most hose? the one that is on top of the other? I just want to make sure because my initial though was it was the lower one, the left one.

not doubting you, I just want to make sure I understand you correctly.

That book is on my list. I am going to buy a copy very soon.

John ED Renstrom
03-20-2018, 09:24 PM
When you get it look things up. The far right port. Right on a car is passengers side no matter were you are standing or direction you are looking. Wondering what they plugged it into? Each one of those ports went some were. One of the problems with the rebuilt is some times you get a body that has more ports then you need.your to cap them off. If the people that replaced that carb didn't know enough to hook the choke pull off what else did they miss? Had you gotten the book most of this would have been behind you.

Blake Sherwin
03-21-2018, 09:33 AM
Looks like they had already put a T connector on and put a hose there, but instead of connecting it they tucked it down between the carb body and the other hose so it wasnt in the way...

I had thought that other hose was connected to something but no, it was loose.

I connected it yesterday and no change in how it runs though. I'll keep going down my list. I have about 20 minutes to a half hour every day to work on it.

I was doing some thinking and I was thinking about how when I refuel it seems to run good for a day then after sitting all night, or even all week its back to its old ways again.

With this in mind I thought maybe this is because as I refuel I disturb the existing fuel and it mixes with the new, creating a better, fresher mixture.

Then as it sits the gasoline, water and alcohol separates and next time I run I'm sucking up the bad fuel or some water.

It just seems strange that after my last refuel it ran perfect. I know I should get a few gas canisters and a pump and empty that tank out. That might be on my list this weekend along with looking into the switch and wires

John ED Renstrom
03-21-2018, 11:22 AM
It should not have a t in it but be hooked up by it's self to that port. What ever that other line is going to should be hooked up some were else. What i will pass on to you is one simple thing if you remove all the things that other people did thinking they were improving the car or that it did not matter and put every thing back to the way GM did it the car will run like it did in 68. One of the hardest parts of restoring one is to ID remove and put back right all these changes and suggestions back the way It was engineered it will run decently.

As for the fuel it will take at least 3 mos of setting still for the water to separate from the ETOH. That problem is most likely rust build up plugging the fuel line. You put fresh fuel in it you stir it up it then gets sucked back as you drive it.

You then think the carburetor is at fault so you get some one to swap it. They screw that up and you fight that for a long time mean time the original problem is still there. But now even if you fix that your still fighting what was done before and after to try to do the quick fix on the original problem.

See why someone sold the car or parked it outback for ten years. You get all the mistakes corrected then you correct the the original problem and you have a good car. But do it one thing at a time.

Blake Sherwin
03-21-2018, 12:00 PM
It should not have a t in it but be hooked up by it's self to that port. What ever that other line is going to should be hooked up some were else. What i will pass on to you is one simple thing if you remove all the things that other people did thinking they were improving the car or that it did not matter and put every thing back to the way GM did it the car will run like it did in 68. One of the hardest parts of restoring one is to ID remove and put back right all these changes and suggestions back the way It was engineered it will run decently.

As for the fuel it will take at least 3 mos of setting still for the water to separate from the ETOH. That problem is most likely rust build up plugging the fuel line. You put fresh fuel in it you stir it up it then gets sucked back as you drive it.

You then think the carburetor is at fault so you get some one to swap it. They screw that up and you fight that for a long time mean time the original problem is still there. But now even if you fix that your still fighting what was done before and after to try to do the quick fix on the original problem.

See why someone sold the car or parked it outback for ten years. You get all the mistakes corrected then you correct the the original problem and you have a good car. But do it one thing at a time.

Yeah there were several T's in the vacuum hose configuration. I will try to eliminate the T leading to the break.

Blake Sherwin
03-21-2018, 07:40 PM
I took alot of pictures today. I will post those later. Here is a better pic of the T. Seems it connected right, just lo g and wrapped around.

I also hear hissing from the gas pedal. I found several disconnected items, will post pics later, like i took tons and im on my mobile now

John ED Renstrom
03-21-2018, 08:55 PM
you are missing what I said. the line to to the choke pull off should not have a t in it. it is by it's self. I'm not that up on mechanical working of the 68 Q-jet but t I believe is a ported vacuum source. that means what ever that 3 leg of the t goes to will be shut off at times. here is a pictures of a 69 carb . your pull off should look like this. there is way to much vacuum on that car to guess were this should go or that should go. think book or look up on line for the carb vacuum placement don't play till you have the play book. my guess is that hose is to large, they should be 5/32 not 1/8. that is why it fell off the pull off. it should fit tight not just slip on.

Paul Steinberg
03-21-2018, 09:43 PM
Is that the carburetor from my 1969 Miller Meteor ambulance?

Blake Sherwin
03-22-2018, 09:38 AM
Here are some pictures I took yesterday. I found a red connector that was disconnected and melted. I connected it back but I am unsure of its function. Also found a severed cable to the black canister mounted to the firewall. Unsure where that goes too.

Found several wooden closepins in several lines, no idea what purpose that would serve, and finally took a fuel sample, which are the last 2 pictures, some debris in there and kinda greenish tint

Blake Sherwin
03-23-2018, 10:19 AM
I spent alot of time last night and this morning watching a carb video series and it helped familiarize me a bit with the parts. Going to check my accelerator pump tonight as I hear ethanol shrinks the rubber seal allowing gas to go past.

Paul Steinberg
03-23-2018, 05:31 PM
Some people put clothes pins on fuel lines as a method to control vapor lock. It is effective as rubbing salt on a rock to cure arthritis.
Let us know the condition of the accelerator pump.

John ED Renstrom
03-23-2018, 07:54 PM
That carb would would have been rebuilt with the proper material to resist the ETOH blend.

Is this the original carburetor that came with the car, or a rebuilt that they installed from an auto parts store, and they turned your original in for a core?

Blake Sherwin
03-25-2018, 12:36 AM
This is a remanned one they installed. I still have the original in a box. Took it out today to compare to the new one. It looks like they used the old vacuum break and everything attached to it. Since the old carb is all brown, except for that left side everything looks brand new, so the swapped those for some reason

Blake Sherwin
03-25-2018, 12:39 AM
Heres the old one, with the new part...so my new one has the old part for some reason..

Blake Sherwin
03-25-2018, 01:10 AM
Also its worth noting this as well. I noticed that my "New" carb I can push the secondaries fully open with my finger, and theres no stop. On the old carb though if I push down on the secondary plates the only open a little. Which after watching a few theory videos on how quadrajets work it was saying that they should NOT open all the way when pushed on.

Today I removed the T from the vacuum finally and attached the straight thru hose from the old carb since it was already the right length. I am going to oreillys tomorrow morning to grab a coupler to join the other two hoses that were connected to the T. I had put 2 drops of motor oil down the accelerator pump shaft with no positive results (actually seemed to drive a little worse). I feel like a big part of my problem may be that while driving maybe those secondaries are swinging open and giving too much air, and if so it may be possible there is a catch or guard missing from the left side where they used the old parts.

The videos I watched on the quads, the guy said alot of backyard tuners will see that the secondary doesnt open all the way and decide its a "good idea" to modify it and remove a guard so they can fly fully open and that this causes bog. I am wondering if the guy who installed this may have been one such tuner, because he was the only guy there who supposedly knew about carbs, basically because he did dirt track racing. I wont even both calling that shop anymore no matter what.

Would premature opening of the secondaries cause the bog issues I am having? I am also very puzzled why they used the old parts on the left side. Only reason I can see is that the new one has the vacuum spout coming out the front, while the old one (on my new carb) has the vacuum spout coming out of the side, towards the carb. Its pretty tight with the fuel line so maybe thats the reason, I dont know.

John ED Renstrom
03-25-2018, 11:05 AM
So how many times do you have to be told that the rebuilt is not the correct carburetor for your car before it sinks in? We need to establish this fact before we can go any farther in assisting you.

Now once again i will say if I was attempting to find out why this car did not run. I would remove that rebuilt put the original back one making sure that i had the correct gaskets and heat plate installed correctly.
Rout the vacuum lines correctly to factory placement.
Make sure there was not an obstruction in the fuel line.

Once the fuel is delivered correctly, then i would inspect all electrical connections. Repair any bad connections And hook back up any that are off. Set all factory settings of timing and dwell. Making sure that all the components in the electrical were in good shape.

You do that in a one thing at a time walk threw fix each thing right before you move to the next you will end up with a decent running car.

But if after you have done this you still find that your original cab is faulty. Remove it, have it rebuilt at a place that knows what they are doing. This will give you a car that runs as well as it did when it was new.

But if your having fun chasing your tail,dabbling here and there go right one. After all the hobby is about having fun and get enjoyment out of the old car. We each do it in our own way.

John ED Renstrom
03-27-2018, 10:20 AM
So how did you make out? The reasion they had to swap the choke control was that 68 and 69 were the only years that a divorced choke was used. So to make the newer bowl function with the car set up they swapped the necessary parts for the out side From the original be sure you don't loose them if you send to original on in they are vary hard to come by.

Blake Sherwin
03-27-2018, 11:21 AM
I had checked the ID numbers on the carbs. New carb is 7028237, old carb is 7028231. From what I understand any odd number at the end just means its made for a manual, but im told there were exceptions for this.

So its for 1968, federal standards, theres no specification listed for the 3 though.

http://www.carburetion.com/quadnumber.htm

No change since my last post. I want to throw the old one back on but I dont currently have the means to remove that fuel line. I need to build up my tool collection before I am capable of doing alot of stuff myself.

A friend has offered to let me use his lift at his house some weekend so we can drop the gas tank, because I really want to get it cleaned out. The tiny fuel sample I siphoned recently had several floaters in it. And if that small amount had that much debris you can guarantee theres alot more, and probably bigger pieces.

Since I dont see any fuel stream when idling and looking down the carb while pulling the throttle I'm probably still having fuel obstruction issues. I know the ultimate solution at least to the fuel obstruction will be to clean/reseal the tank, but next I plan to put more seafoam in, and put some fuel on top of that, see if it will at least clear some of the obstruction temporarily so i can move it around easier. Of course I am also aware I could make the obstruction worse too.

So my top priorities now are:

- Rebuild carb
- Drop tank
- Check filters
- Blow out fuel lines

My primary obstacles are money, time and the fact that every time I look under the hood I dont know where to find anything, or what anything is (but im slowly learning what a few things are)

I will let you know once I am able to get some of these things done.

John ED Renstrom
03-27-2018, 10:02 PM
change that fuel filter will help. as it is most likely plugged then if you want add a inline on in the rubber jumper from the frame to it. that will be a lot cheaper then replacing the original one if there are things in the tank. here is were I added one to my 68

Blake Sherwin
03-28-2018, 12:17 PM
I still need to confirm if there is an inline currently or not. I was having trouble following the fuel line and generally locating things. I dont have a means to lift the car at the moment.

I know there have been alot of suggestions and I have not been ignoring them, alot of this is either out of my skill level, I lack tools, or I simply feel I may screw something up with my clumsiness.

I have a checklist I've compiled from the helpful suggestions here. Once I can borrow my friend's garage I'm going to try to actually do some of the items I have been having issues completing.

Once I do get this done I will be sure to post exactly what the culprit was

John ED Renstrom
03-28-2018, 09:14 PM
It should have a canister in line on the front of the engine. It. Would be behind the power steering pump. The add on one i pictured is right below it. It is not a easy one to change. But since you have found a replacement on i would do it when you do the tank

Blake Sherwin
04-01-2018, 10:19 PM
I appreciate everyones patience with my amateur skills. It takes quite a load off now knowing i have found the cause of the bogging problem (fuel filter).

I know im far from done, but i think i can let this thread die now that these symptoms have been remedied.

And to think the fix cost me all of $6. Well 6 at the moment, my next plan is to make things right with the return line, and get that carb sorted


Thanks again