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Paul Steinberg
09-15-2017, 11:20 AM
Reposted from a Ford Explorer forum with permission from the author. Not all the information will concern our vehicles, such as in Paragraph 3, but overall, this information could be crucial in keeping our cars safe for its occupants. Contact information for the author is available to PCS Members from me, upon request.

I am toxicologist who joined this forum so I can share information on how to measure carbon monoxide (CO) levels in Ford Explorers and the drivers of Ford Explorers.

#1. If you can smell an exhaust odor, odorless CO is also present, but CO may be present even if you do not smell exhaust, or after the smell fades. The only way to know the level of CO in a vehicle is with a professional CO detector that displays from 1ppm, and preferably one that records CO measurements automatically (called a data-logger) or at least one that records the peak CO level (which you can then recall by pressing a button). Any CO level above 0 in a vehicle is abnormal unless in heavy traffic or a tunnel, and healthy non-smokers absorb CO whenever the air has more than the 1-2ppm they normally exhale. If you can afford 2 detectors, I recommend putting one in the front seat and one in the rear, so you can determine from which end exhaust gases are entering (it could be either end or both).

#2. Do not test vehicles with home CO alarms built to UL2034 or UL2075 standards. These are worse than worthless for use in vehicles because they give a false sense of security. They do not display any CO levels below 30ppm in real time, nor do they give any CO warning below 70ppm, even though EPA average limit for public is just 9ppm. Worse still, these kind of alarms don't provide any warning until CO has been continuously over 70ppm for 1 - 4 hours at the low end or over 400ppm for 4 -15 minutes at the high end. By the time they alarm, you have already been poisoned for anywhere from 4 minutes to 4 hours.

#3. To get your Ford dealer to take you seriously, ask a passenger to use a smartphone to video the CO level your detector displays while you accelerate WOT over 45 mph with both the front and rear AC on high, all windows closed, and recirculate ON. From my testing of 2015 and 2016 Explorers, this is consistently the worst case scenario and so the only condition you need to test. To quickly lower the CO level in the cabin after testing, leave the AC on and turn recirculate OFF (or open at least 2 windows). Since Ford dealers do not have CO detectors, I recommend you test your vehicle again after anyone attempts any repairs. As long as you can detect CO entering the cabin under these conditions, the vehicle is not safe to drive.

#4. If you want to know how much CO you absorbed from your exposures while driving, you can use any professional CO detector to measure the level of CO in your tissues. You just need to hold your breath for 35 seconds before exhaling into the detector. This method is faster, more accurate and less painful than measuring COHb in blood, which is most hospitals can't even do in-house. If you do get your COHb tested, make sure they take both arterial and venous samples. Both are needed to determine if CO is being absorbed (a>v), excreted (v>a) or in equilibrium (a=v).

During CO exposure, you inhale more CO than you exhale, but afterwards, once back in fresh air, you exhale more than you inhale, until the level of CO in your blood and tissues tissues returns to healthy equilibrium. This can take days to years, depending on how much CO you absorbed, or until you are exposed to a higher level and start absorbing CO again. Symptoms like recurring headaches, chronic fatigue, brain fog, muscle pain and multi-sensory sensitivity can last as long as you have more CO in your tissues than your blood.

Channing Spencer
09-15-2017, 04:56 PM
Thank you Paul.

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/police-officer-passes-wheel-due-carbon-monoxide-exposure-49001298

John ED Renstrom
09-15-2017, 09:39 PM
the story I got was the problem accrued when sitting idling with the AC on in the recalculation mod. the problem was with holes cut in the floor for aftermarket equipment and not properly sealed. who runs there ac in that mode anyway. fresh air will cool more. of your worried about it add a extension to the tailpipe

Paul Steinberg
09-16-2017, 09:16 AM
additional reading... CO and Cars: Unfinished Business (http://www.safetyresearch.net/blog/articles/co-and-cars-unfinished-business) Posted on Thursday, Sep 14th, 2017

John ED Renstrom
09-16-2017, 10:16 AM
Sounds like a get a electric car plug. When I took drivers Ed in school some 50 years age it was called don't be stupid.

Peter Grave
09-16-2017, 03:16 PM
This week we sold our 12th used 2013 to 2015 PPV Explorer. We have also sold many Tahoe used PPVs. With this type vehicle we plug all equipment holes left from the removal of the Police equipment because of this very issue. The problem exists as Ford has said from the holes made when the upfit is done NOT being properly sealed. The Explorer in its virgin form is not subject to Co intrusion only happens with sloppy work from non Ford contractors. We again see the mainstream media lets panic everyone news.

Russell Street
09-16-2017, 04:42 PM
I checked with the Service Manager at Wagner Ford and he assured me that the only vehicles with the problem are the Police Interceptor models with bad modification jobs. Not the "civilian" version.

John ED Renstrom
09-16-2017, 09:38 PM
the answer is simple run the ac on fresh air and crack a back window when sitting idling. everyone in snow country knows enough to do that if your stuck in a snow bank (using the heater of course) also go out and make sure the pipe is open not burred in the snow to.

Paul Steinberg
09-17-2017, 01:02 AM
I checked with the Service Manager at Wagner Ford and he assured me that the only vehicles with the problem are the Police Interceptor models with bad modification jobs. Not the "civilian" version.


Did you really expect him to admit to a ongoing problem ??? There has to be some reason that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration NHTSA is moving forward with its own investigation.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/ford-downplays-risk-of-explorer-exhaust-fumes-complaints.html

https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2017/nhtsa-ford-explorer-exhaust-manifold.shtml

Paul Steinberg
09-17-2017, 05:09 PM
Yes - THERE ARE CIVILIAN OWNERS of Ford Explorers having CO issues ... !

I-Team: Shrewsbury Family Finds
Carbon Monoxide Leaking Into Explorer
By Cheryl Fiandaca, WBZ-TV
August 21, 2017 6:13 PM
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/08/21/i-team-shrewsbury-family-carbon-monoxide-ford-explorer/ (http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/08/21/i-team-shrewsbury-family-carbon-monoxide-ford-explorer/)
(with 3:12 min video segment)
-----------------------------------------------------
Government Investigates Possible Carbon Monoxide Leaks in
Ford Explorers
By Susan Hogan, Patti Petitte and Meredith Royster
Published at 9:14 AM EDT on Sep 9, 2017
Updated at 8:04 PM EDT on Sep 8, 2017
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Government-Investigates-Possible-Carbon-Monoxide-Leaks-in-Ford-Explorers-443117853.html (http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Government-Investigates-Possible-Carbon-Monoxide-Leaks-in-Ford-Explorers-443117853.html)
(with 4:20 min video segment)
-----------------------------------------------------
2 Md. Women Suspect CO Leaks in Their Ford Explorers
Responsible for Symptoms
By Susan Hogan, Patti Petitte and Meredith Royster
Published at 9:33 PM EDT on Sep 7, 2017
Updated at 1:47 PM EDT on Sep 12, 2017
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/2-Md-Women-Suspect-CO-Leaks-in-Their-Ford-Explorers-Responsible-for-Symptoms-443102123.html (http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/2-Md-Women-Suspect-CO-Leaks-in-Their-Ford-Explorers-Responsible-for-Symptoms-443102123.html)
(with 6:54 min video segment)
-----------------------------------------------------
Montgomery County Police Inspecting Fleet of Ford Explorers
for Carbon Monoxide Leaks
The move comes after elevated carbon monoxide levels were
found in similar vehicles used by other police departments
By Mark Segraves, Associated Press and NBC Washington
Published at 1:09 PM EDT on Aug 3, 2017
Updated at 4:21 PM EDT on Aug 3, 2017
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Montgomery-County-Police-Inspecting-Fleet-of-Ford-Explorers-to-Check-for-CO-Leaks-438349433.html (http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Montgomery-County-Police-Inspecting-Fleet-of-Ford-Explorers-to-Check-for-CO-Leaks-438349433.html)
(with 3:11 min video segment)
------------------------------------------------------

Channing Spencer
09-17-2017, 05:59 PM
Yes - THERE ARE CIVILIAN OWNERS of Ford Explorers having CO issues ... !Possible Carbon Monoxide Leaks in
Ford Explorers..........-

BOOM!!!!! :applause: :Exclamation::Exclamation::Exclamation: :14_6_12::Exclamation::Exclamation::Exclamation:

Peter Grave
09-17-2017, 09:30 PM
Before I start let me say I am not a Ford dealer nor do I have stock in Ford Motor Co. I have bought sold and driven for personal use many Ford cars and trucks for 55 years almost all have served me or my business well. I am sure there is some kind of issue with the Explorers minor at the worst. If you have sold 1.3 million Explorers and had only 2700 complaints,three crashes and 41 injuries that represents a very small percentage of the vehicles. There were probably more crashes and injuries from bees flying around inside the vehicle a driver defect? I am sure there is an issue with the equipment upfitters sloppy work and this will be overcome (remember the Crown Victoria gas tank) at Fords expense. So far as the public owners go any number of things can cause CO to get in the passenger area, failing to close tailgate tightly,a rear door window ajar with front closed a weather strip pulled loose, collision damage minor will do it if a body seam is split open, a friend or brother in law who is a lawyer. I am sure it will all come out as the hand wringing media will be sure to tell us. In the mean time if this is a big worry and you have an Explorer I suggest you park it and use public transportation. This week I have a wrecked but repairable 2015 police and a 2014 University security Explorers coming in and they will be for sale the buyers will be informed on their bill of sale of this issue and told to check with Ford. MY TWO CENTS

John ED Renstrom
09-17-2017, 10:27 PM
love the wording possible and suspected

Walter Suiter
10-13-2017, 02:12 AM
Since I started driving an 07 Exploder a month ago, I can and will tell you there is a minor problem with the gasket on the left exhaust manifold eroding over time.

I can hear it in mine, and when I have time to play I'll be looking into it.

Kurt Arends
10-13-2017, 08:29 AM
My sister and brother-in-law in the Twin Cities just attended the funeral for the teen-aged son of some friends of theirs a week or so ago. This boy and a friend were sitting in an idling Ford Explorer and both kids died from Carbon Monoxide poisoning. My sister said that this was an "older" Explorer, so I don't know what year or any further details.

Kurt Arends
10-13-2017, 09:09 AM
Just received a text from my sister. The funeral for the boy was yesterday.

Paul Steinberg
10-13-2017, 10:42 AM
An older Ford Explorer could have had a rusted out exhaust system, that would not be the fault of Ford Motor. With the newer Ford Explorers, there is a definite manufacturing fault. On one occasion, my CO detector has read 2 PPM on a short trip under 5 miles. The one thing that I have found, is that the problem isn't one that is consistent, and I have not been able to pin down the variables.

Peter Grave
10-13-2017, 11:00 AM
Paul; Its a two person job you need seat folded down and be in the back with detector while vehicle is being driven to find source. My guess is will be coming in around the gate or through the well.

Walter Suiter
10-13-2017, 03:04 PM
While CBS isn't exactly a trusted source, their reporting on Exploder CO levels matches up with a lot of others.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ford-explorer-closer-to-recall-possible-carbon-monoxide-leak-police/

My humble opinion is you'd have to spend a lot of time sealed up in an Exploder to get to a toxic level of CO in the vehicle, and I have doubts the makeup air for the passenger compartment is being pulled from under the hood.
The Ford V-8 is also not a high producer of CO if the emission system is functioning.

Ford appears to be taking a more serious look at CO leaks in Explorers than they did when Pintos & Crown Vics were self igniting long burning road flares.

John ED Renstrom
10-13-2017, 11:29 PM
Now me I have dumped cars for a lot less then this.

Peter Grave
10-14-2017, 01:16 AM
Currently have two late model explorers in stock one a 2015 trade in on a 2017 dept. traded three in to Ford dealer we got two one sold day it came in. No issues reported as they bought three more. Second 2015 only 33k miles front hit not a total still lot drives but sold rather than repair. Again replaced with another Explorer. Also got two 2014 Charger Hemi AWD cars 63k and 79k both with motor issues again traded on Explorers Chief said " No more Dodges too many $$$$$ spent on problems". So issues or not they continue to out sell Taurus by a large margin.

Paul Steinberg
10-14-2017, 06:49 AM
Currently have two late model explorers in stock one a 2015 trade in on a 2017 dept. traded three in to Ford dealer we got two one sold day it came in. No issues reported as they bought three more. Second 2015 only 33k miles front hit not a total still lot drives but sold rather than repair. Again replaced with another Explorer. Also got two 2014 Charger Hemi AWD cars 63k and 79k both with motor issues again traded on Explorers Chief said " No more Dodges too many $$$$$ spent on problems". So issues or not they continue to out sell Taurus by a large margin.

That is why 2017 was the last year for the Taurus. Ford announced last July (http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2017/07/24/sources-say-ford-gm-looking-kill-slow-selling-sedans/103973922/) that it was considering discontinuing the model.

Kurt Arends
10-14-2017, 01:38 PM
.........and neither one even begin to compare to the Crown Vics and Grand Marquis!

Peter Grave
10-14-2017, 06:34 PM
There is talk of another sedan being thought about a drivitiive of the Continental thus a larger vehicle more suited to the job. Supposedly a no frills Continental. We will wait and see.

Peter Grave
10-17-2017, 03:25 PM
Ford to Retrofit 1.4M Explorers for Exhaust-Leak PreventionTo allay customer concerns, Ford Motor Co. is offering the owners of 1.3 million Ford Explorers in the U.S. complimentary dealer service to reduce the potential for exhaust or carbon monoxide leaking into the vehicle.
Advertisement

The move is intended to reassure Explorer owners concerned by recent media reports about carbon monoxide leaks in Ford Police Interceptor Utility vehicles. Those leaks have been tied to unsealed holes created during the third-party installation of police equipment after the vehicle purchase, Ford said.

The free dealer servicing will be made available for Explorers in the 2011-2017 model years, regardless of mileage or warranty status. Dealers will reprogram the air conditioner, replace the liftgate drain valves, and inspect sealing of the rear of the vehicle, Ford said. Dealers will offer the service from Nov. 1 through Dec. 31 of 2018.

The automaker, however, stressed that the vehicles are still safe even if they don’t undergo the complimentary servicing.

“Our investigation has not found carbon monoxide levels that exceed what people are exposed to every day,” Ford said in a released statement. The service is intended to give customers extra peace of mind.

In addition to the Explorers in the U.S., 84,000 Explorers in Canada and 24,000 in Mexico will be eligible for the service. The Ford reference number for this service is 17N03.

Ford can be reached at (888) 260-5575.