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View Full Version : '77 M-M Combo Back For Another Go


Kurt Arends
02-04-2017, 11:08 PM
This one probably would have sold by now had the upholstery in the back not been messed up.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1977-Cadillac-Fleetwood-Fleetwood-/152424056582?&_trksid=p2056016.m2516.l5255

David Henry
02-05-2017, 01:16 PM
I think Murray has had this for sale at least 3x in the past year.

John ED Renstrom
02-05-2017, 08:37 PM
Not a bad price. I would go for it if I didn't all ready have 4 out side

Kent Dorsey
03-17-2017, 02:13 PM
well, everyone wondered where it would land...

Brady D Smith
03-17-2017, 03:32 PM
I am really glad this found a good home. I was tempted, but like Ed I have more projects than room. This deserved to be saved and loved on.

Bill Marcy
03-17-2017, 06:21 PM
Kent, congratulations to you! Is the car like I told you it was when I sold it to Bo Pound, or is it worse? I truly hope you will restore it, as it deserves.

Adam Borkat
03-17-2017, 08:23 PM
well, everyone wondered where it would land...

Congratulations, I was wondering how it might look in green! You can have that done before May, right ;)

Kent Dorsey
03-17-2017, 09:27 PM
Hey Brady, Bill and Adam...
We were extremely busy here when Murray got here, I didn't have a lot of time. There was a sacrifice in the deal, the 76 M-M Citation went with Murray. We also made a deal on some 2 man Ferno Washington stretchers, and a nice low boy stretcher that he will probably wheel and deal on sometime.
I haven't had a lot of time to go over the car yet, it has a few mechanical issues that need to be addressed, doesn't seem to be anything major.
It is a rare car and I have grown to love 77-79 Cadillacs...
Adam, don't look for green though.. what is that color? 1977 Academy Gray? hmmm.... ya never know...
Thanks to Bill Marcy and Dan Herrick for filling in some blanks over the last few weeks...

David Henry
03-17-2017, 09:39 PM
I know Murray tried to have that sold a few times, glad it found a great home. Before I made a deal with Bill for the Lifeliner this car came close to being my first one.

Abe Bush
03-18-2017, 03:18 AM
I hate all 77's, as they literally killed the pro-car industry.

Russell Street
03-18-2017, 09:42 AM
I hate all 77's, as they literally killed the pro-car industry.

More like a bunch of dumbass, know nothing, yet know everything politicians killed the pro car industry. The auto industry just did what they were told to do!!!

Hopefully that "climate" changes now that we've got more common sensed people in charge. We'll see!!!

John ED Renstrom
03-18-2017, 10:46 AM
To call that set of years as down sized caddys, is to says you never had one in your garage. They take up a lot of room. But really what killed the pro car was cost. Vans were a lot cheaper to buy and convert. EMS was moving from funeral home based to independent or fire house.the prestige of a caddy ambulance gave way to quility of care. Which has now evolved in to if mine is bigger then yours I'm better.

I'm my way of thinking loss of completion is what killed the pro car. All the companys Combined in to one with cookie. Cutter styling. By 77 was really only two companies building cars. By 79 only one

Danny Hutcheson
03-18-2017, 12:12 PM
Appears to be an excellent example of a rare breed.

Steve Loftin
03-18-2017, 12:38 PM
I hate all 77's, as they literally killed the pro-car industry.

Not quite - federal government regulations forced this to happen; THEY did this to the procar (and entire automotive) industry.

The '77s were merely the symptoms of this disease. Few manufacturers, dealers, or consumers wanted this.

Kent Dorsey
03-19-2017, 12:00 PM
Finally had a little time for it today, a few photos before it heads off to Godfrey's Garage tomorrow.
I think the only mounted lights I have seen on this era of car are the beacon rays, the 184 light (non mounted, just posing) in the photos has some kind of triple attachment to it, whereas this car has the single bored hole...
Does anyone have a 184 light mounted to one of these or photos of any? (Maybe Ron Devies blue combination had a power light on second thought?)

Paul Steinberg
03-19-2017, 12:31 PM
With the light mounted, it looks like it will be too high to get into the garage.

Steve Loftin
03-19-2017, 01:24 PM
Finally had a little time for it today, a few photos before it heads off to Godfrey's Garage tomorrow.
I think the only mounted lights I have seen on this era of car are the beacon rays, the 184 light (non mounted, just posing) in the photos has some kind of triple attachment to it, whereas this car has the single bored hole...
Does anyone have a 184 light mounted to one of these or photos of any? (Maybe Ron Devies blue combination had a power light on second thought?)

Note that it will take a 184-H (tall skirt, cut to fit) to properly accommodate the roof contour of this car, whether you use one or a pair.

Chuck Kramer
03-19-2017, 06:32 PM
well, everyone wondered where it would land...

One of ten 1977 M/M Combinations, Not sure how many were of the limousine style. Ten total combinations in 1978 and five total combinations in 1979.

John ED Renstrom
03-19-2017, 09:26 PM
easy enough to make a D out of any light. all they did was use the top plate and
turn it up side down. the three bolts would go threw it draw the bottom plate up till it's under the skirt. use 1/8 in piece of pipe for your center or drill down threw the approach size bolt. if yous has the hot shoe for a contact you will need to make a contact if yours is the wires you feed it down threw the hole . but a wing nut on the bottom and you now have a D. you can order a tag off ebay to even say so.

here is a pictures of a D I made using a piece of stainless for a bottom plate.

Kent Dorsey
03-20-2017, 11:57 AM
Just a heads up, Murray got the 76 M-M Citation. I do not know his plans:

Kurt Arends
03-20-2017, 12:08 PM
IMHO, M-M built the best looking ambulances and limousine style coaches built during the '77-'79 model years.

Kent Dorsey
04-07-2017, 09:24 AM
The '76 M-M ended up on Craigslist in Kentucky, I will let someone else post if they want to...

Paul Steinberg
04-07-2017, 02:52 PM
The '76 M-M ended up on Craigslist in Kentucky, I will let someone else post if they want to...

I'd post the link, but I was banned!!! :mad:

Kent Dorsey
04-07-2017, 05:22 PM
You were banned from Kentucky? or banned from Craigslist? (hhmmm, maybe we don't wanna know the answer to be banned from Craigslist...:D

Kurt Arends
04-07-2017, 06:29 PM
Banned, or just disciplined???

Kent Dorsey
04-18-2017, 02:20 PM
About to order coil springs for the '77 M-M, hopefully new drapes in soon. Thanks to Noah Dorsey, James Welch, Dave Plante and Cary Livingston for drape parts, and offers of assistance from Daniel Scully.
Sounds like body shop will get the '77 in September... stay tuned...

Ron Devies
04-21-2017, 03:00 PM
Finally had a little time for it today, a few photos before it heads off to Godfrey's Garage tomorrow.
I think the only mounted lights I have seen on this era of car are the beacon rays, the 184 light (non mounted, just posing) in the photos has some kind of triple attachment to it, whereas this car has the single bored hole...
Does anyone have a 184 light mounted to one of these or photos of any? (Maybe Ron Devies blue combination had a power light on second thought?)

My 1980 S&S Victoria Combination (My Very First Pro Car) had a 184 on the roof

Kent Dorsey
05-15-2017, 07:40 PM
This car was in bad need of drapes... got it back today. Very pleased with the gray tickweave drapes...

John ED Renstrom
05-15-2017, 08:37 PM
Try the plumbers helper trick on that quarter​ you might be plesently surprised

Bill Marcy
05-17-2017, 05:23 PM
Kent, I can see you getting ready for the new color scheme, I am anxious to see it finally painted.

Kent Dorsey
08-18-2017, 10:12 AM
For those that were interested in the rescue of this '77 so it wouldn't suffer a Ghostbuster's fate or any other undesirable fate...
The car is scheduled to go to the body shop mid September... estimate was it would be there 7 weeks.
1977 Cadillac Academy Gray Metallic...

John ED Renstrom
08-18-2017, 10:18 AM
I hate all 77's, as they literally killed the pro-car industry.

You mean you hate GM for not coming out with a better car. Same as today.

Kent Dorsey
09-12-2017, 04:31 PM
New coil springs raised it a bit, moved Coker American Classics from '81 to the '77... 1.6 inch whitewalls should look nice with new paint... a last gander while it's white:

Bill Marcy
09-12-2017, 08:31 PM
Hey Kent, she is looking better already! One correction though, I don't think Coker makes the American Classic tires. As I understand it, Coker Tires are now made in China, American Classics are made in Pennsylvania, USA.

John ED Renstrom
09-12-2017, 11:05 PM
cleaning up nilcly

Kent Dorsey
09-13-2017, 09:38 AM
On the Coker site, it says these are made in USA... someone mentioned to me they thought these were manufactured by Cooper... Just bought a set to go on the '77 S & S, which was sporting some 15 year old Broadway's that have been passed around about 4 cars...

John ED Renstrom
09-13-2017, 10:20 AM
They are sold at two on line locations cooker and universal. My guess is both places are the same parent company. What I don't understand is why they don't make a Heaver load rating tire. They are a good looking tire on a car. If they are manufactured by Cooper they have a 235 that is rated will over 2000 lb it just comes with raised white letters. All the bias ply tires are made over seas. It is my understanding that cooker is a distrupiter not a manufacturer. They put out there specs and some one bids to make them.

Chuck Kramer
09-13-2017, 11:15 AM
New coil springs raised it a bit, moved Coker American Classics from '81 to the '77... 1.6 inch whitewalls should look nice with new paint... a last gander while it's white:

Looking forward to see it with it's new color! Then I would like to see current photos of all your coaches again! Thanks in advance!

Jon VanDermark
09-13-2017, 04:22 PM
Kent,
Where did you get the cloth for the drapes?

Kent Dorsey
09-13-2017, 04:34 PM
The local trim shop that did the drapes for the 73, 76 and 77 S & S had sample material, the shop owner said there were some types of material that wouldn't work well because the threads would pull apart easily. He told me after I picked out a fabric he would look at it and tell me if he thought it would work. As you probably know, you need to use a good automotive interior fabric so it won't fade...

Kent Dorsey
10-05-2017, 04:10 PM
Here we go...

Richard Vyse
10-05-2017, 04:40 PM
Looks like it is getting done right. Best of luck!

Kent Dorsey
12-07-2017, 04:00 PM
heading in the right direction...

Kent Dorsey
12-07-2017, 08:09 PM
should be ready in a couple of weeks...

Paul Steinberg
12-07-2017, 10:41 PM
OH MY GOSH!!!! You are such a modifier that you have ruined this car. It will never be the same. :D :beatdeadhorse5: :rolleyes:

John ED Renstrom
12-07-2017, 10:42 PM
nicer with a little color on it:thumbsup:

Paul Steinberg
12-07-2017, 10:46 PM
nicer with a little color on it:thumbsup:

Yes, I agree, however, it is the wrong color. You shouldn't ever change a color once it has been applied by the factory that built the car. To do so is paramount to heresy!! The sky's are going to open up, and rain down cats and dogs, and you Kent, will be responsible for feeding all those animals, and don't forget their rabies vaccines. :D

Kurt Arends
12-07-2017, 11:09 PM
Life would be SOOOOO much less complicated if you all would just stay off of Facebook!

Tim Prieur
12-07-2017, 11:30 PM
Looking forward to seeing it when the tape comes off. The colour contrast looks great.:thumbsup:

Noah Dorsey
12-07-2017, 11:51 PM
I enjoyed the white, but... Dayumm! This is going to look NICE when you're done. :applause:

Kent Dorsey
12-08-2017, 09:22 AM
Well, here's the story:
First of all, what do we consider the original color? The original M-M combination according to plate was white crinkle over red... the donor car for body (the rear was damaged) was medium blue...
I have always been a "paint it what color you want to and enjoy it" kind, but I will admit one change in the last few years... Now, I am more into confining a color change to the available colors in that model year. My '79 Sedan DeVille is done in a 1997 GM color, and now I wish it was in a 1979 GM color.
So, this is progress for me to go back to the 1977 available colors...
Or, I could have the front painted red, and the take the body back to medium blue... :D

Kurt Arends
12-08-2017, 10:00 AM
There is no reason to get hung up on selecting a color that was available in the model year in which your coach was built. No reason to even worry about it being a color that Cadillac ever offered. The coach builders would paint them any color that the buyer specified and did so frequently.

Paul Steinberg
12-08-2017, 10:33 AM
.................
Or, I could have the front painted red, and the take the body back to medium blue... :D


Red and blue sounds great, and you could paint the doors white, and have them lettered "Final Ride Taxi Service"..:D

John ED Renstrom
12-08-2017, 10:57 AM
Now at least the trim was removed. Looks like they are doing a good job. Me I think white is my least favorite color or as they say all colors. As white reflects them all back to you . you mind sees it as white.

Kent Dorsey
12-12-2017, 10:22 AM
close quarters shot, but coming along...

Bill Marcy
12-12-2017, 05:28 PM
I like it! You did right by this car.

Kent Dorsey
12-18-2017, 05:55 PM
more photos when it slows down here...

Philip Scanio
12-18-2017, 06:39 PM
Your car is looking sharp.

David Henry
12-18-2017, 06:54 PM
Wow that really changes that car up from white. Sets it off nicely

Jon VanDermark
12-18-2017, 07:57 PM
I really, really like that color!

Kent Dorsey
12-18-2017, 08:44 PM
and a few more...

Paul Steinberg
12-18-2017, 09:09 PM
When will the curtains be done? Looks like a different car.

John ED Renstrom
12-18-2017, 09:27 PM
looks sharp. what do you have on it for rubber. the 2 inch WW look good

Kent Dorsey
12-18-2017, 10:46 PM
The curtains are in, I am just a stickler for opening them up... he put the rear ones on inside out while doing body work and I need to get them back in place... the rubber... Coker American Classsics...

Bill Marcy
12-19-2017, 07:42 AM
Kent, you have really made this car beautiful! I started going through it after I bought it from Dan Herrick, but I let it go, because I felt it would never be done. Now, I wish I would have persisted, I really like what you have done. Congratulations!

David Henry
12-20-2017, 04:48 PM
Kent

Did you modify/alter the interior color?

Kent Dorsey
12-21-2017, 08:36 AM
I haven't done anything to the interior other than add the drapes... I don't have any immediate plans to do anything with it either. The front is the brown and the rear was originally Omaha orange, and now burgundy. I know a lot are concerned about the interior, it just isn't on my radar...

Chuck Kramer
12-21-2017, 10:16 AM
and a few more...

How about some Fleet Photos before Christmas?

John ED Renstrom
12-21-2017, 11:38 AM
the nice thing about the gray is it goes well with anything.

Russell Street
12-21-2017, 03:27 PM
I haven't done anything to the interior other than add the drapes... I don't have any immediate plans to do anything with it either. The front is the brown and the rear was originally Omaha orange, and now burgundy. I know a lot are concerned about the interior, it just isn't on my radar...

\Why in hell did a combo have an Omaha Orange rear interior?? THAT would wake up the dead!!

Paul Steinberg
12-21-2017, 04:20 PM
It is a sorted tale about the story of two cars that were in love, and couldn't be separated, once they were joined in holy matrimony, at the body salon. May its loving mate, rest in peace, as it slowly rusts into the ground. Enough said!! :eek:

Kent Dorsey
12-21-2017, 05:17 PM
and many thanks to Andrew Zajkowski for snapping this at a Michigan car lot, July of 2001:

Kurt Arends
12-21-2017, 06:47 PM
Why in hell did a combo have an Omaha Orange rear interior?? THAT would wake up the dead!!


I would say that the party that ordered it never intended for it to be used as a hearse.

Paul Steinberg
12-21-2017, 07:00 PM
I would say that the party that ordered it never intended for it to be used as a hearse.

I like my explanation better !!!:argueing::argue::argueing:

John ED Renstrom
12-21-2017, 09:17 PM
Why in hell did a combo have an Omaha Orange rear interior?? THAT would wake up the dead!!

because that was how it was ordered. now the real question is why did someone order it that way? but the color change makes it good to go.

Kent Dorsey
12-22-2017, 11:37 AM
If I remember Dan Herrick correctly, it was white crinkle over red body, brown front and Omaha orange rear interior, which sounds like it wasn't destined for too much funeral work...

Tony Karsnia
12-22-2017, 12:34 PM
Kent,

Do you have photos of the orange rear interior? I have photos of what I believe is your car in the original color configuration, but the rear interior is not orange.

Car is beautiful the way you've redone it.

Kent Dorsey
12-22-2017, 01:52 PM
You have to be careful what some individuals ask...

Philip Scanio
12-22-2017, 02:57 PM
Thanks for the photos--your car really finished out well.

Paul Steinberg
12-22-2017, 03:19 PM
Kent,

Do you have photos of the orange rear interior? I have photos of what I believe is your car in the original color configuration, but the rear interior is not orange.

Car is beautiful the way you've redone it.

Why not just post the picture. Picture posting is free for all registered website users, and as we all well know, pictures are always a welcome addition to a thread.

Chuck Kramer
12-22-2017, 03:29 PM
If I remember Dan Herrick correctly, it was white crinkle over red body, brown front and Omaha orange rear interior, which sounds like it wasn't destined for too much funeral work...

Interesting since M/M ordered 10 sets of jump seats per year for 1977,1978 and 1979. Per Tom Caserta, only 5 sets were used in 1979 and the remaining 5 sets were sold off to Superior after the M/M plant closed.

The 79 Landau Traditional combination would look very nice in that color!

Tony Karsnia
12-22-2017, 04:06 PM
I will be more than happy to post the photos...as soon as I get home. I was merely engaging in the conversation and paying Kent a compliment on his car.

Tony Karsnia
12-22-2017, 06:50 PM
Here are some photos from my Miller-Meteor archives that I hope will be helpful. The first two are of a white over red 1977 Miller-Meteor Cadillac Classic combination. As you can see, the interior harmonizes with the exterior. I would be amazed if there was more than one built with this color combination, but stranger things have happened... Note also that this car has a 3/4 roof treatment. I don't ever remember seeing this treatment on a '77 M-M limo style, so it could very well have been redone (prior to initial delivery) into the full-crinkle scheme.

The third photo shows a dark blue 1977 Miller-Meteor Cadillac Classic limousine, but this one was a straight hearse. This car was offered for sale back in the '90s by American Coach. It had a solid body, but very rusty undercarriage. It was my understanding that this is the body that was swapped onto a solid chassis, making two cars into the one Kent has restored. This blue car had a brown interior.

Kent Dorsey
12-23-2017, 10:22 AM
Probably going to get the light off this week... so snapped a few more...

Chuck Kramer
12-23-2017, 10:30 AM
Kent.....I'd like to be you dad! Will you adopt me? lol

Russell Street
12-24-2017, 10:32 AM
Probably going to get the light off this week... so snapped a few more...

Why take the light off??? I like it with, but for my taste a 17 or 170 series Beacon would look much better. Love what you've done with this car, it is beautiful!! Very close to the color we'd like to put on our '64. Fine work.

Kurt Arends
12-24-2017, 10:47 AM
Why take the light off??? I like it with, but for my taste a 17 or 170 series Beacon would look much better. Love what you've done with this car, it is beautiful!! Very close to the color we'd like to put on our '64. Fine work.

........... but, I love your '64 just as it is.

Kent Dorsey
12-24-2017, 11:23 AM
Aye Russell... thanks for comments, I bought the demountable beacon and when it came time to wire it up, there was a maze of wires that I couldn't make sense out of... so the body man who did the work was also a volunteer fireman and he volunteered to mount and hook up the light, the wail didn't work on the siren control unit, and the yelp quit the day I took it to the body shop. He took one of his own siren control units and installed it for me.
I wanted to be able to show it as a combination, but for day in day out driving through the community, I am surrounded by people have who don't remember the days combinations ruled the roost here (that service by funeral homes stopped here in October 1973) and so most see it as... Ghostbusters... I am supersensitive to people hollering Ghostbusters to something like this car... being the funeral home in the community - it will cause less stir and comment to just be seen as a neat old limousine style hearse.... I am also anxious to look at it's lines and design without the light on it...
(and, it will only fit in one of 3 garage doors with the light on, in that rear area, it is a TIGHT fit to get the 2 middle cars in, as I have 7 cars packed into a 6 car garage...)
In reference to the 184 Power light being used over a Beacon Ray, I think almost every 77-79 era I remember had a Beacon Ray on it, but the 184 Powerlight was out and getting to be used more widely at this point, in my hometown, the last thing I can remember having a Beacon Ray mounted was a 1971 Ford LTD police car (and that's BLUE in North Carolina)... so 1977 I was thinking of what was available and that a Powerlight could have been used on those models. )

Tim Prieur
12-24-2017, 04:55 PM
Kent, I think your final result is striking!
With respect to friends on the board I think the 184 suits the timeframe perfectly. The clear dome also goes very well with the silver body colour.

Bill Marcy
12-24-2017, 08:12 PM
Kent, although I would keep a beacon on it, your coach looks great any way you show it.

Kent Dorsey
12-26-2017, 05:43 PM
Powerlight removed, fully hearseatized...

Terry Lange
12-26-2017, 06:51 PM
I don't know...I think I still see the top of a jump seat visible through that rear side window!

Bill Marcy
12-27-2017, 07:48 AM
Kent, what can I say, she looks beautiful. I am sitting here, remembering my 78 M-M limo-style hearse, which I believe you were really in love with. I guess you are officially now in hearse-heaven, with this coach.

Chuck Kramer
12-27-2017, 08:58 AM
Powerlight removed, fully hearseatized...

Just plain loverly! I'm am fixated by the color Kent!

Kent Dorsey
12-27-2017, 10:17 AM
Kent, what can I say, she looks beautiful. I am sitting here, remembering my 78 M-M limo-style hearse, which I believe you were really in love with. I guess you are officially now in hearse-heaven, with this coach.

Thanks Bill, I think this may be my all time #1 dream coach... having recently lost the #2 all time dream coach, this is some consolation. I am really pleased with how it turned out, I appreciate you and Dan filling in some gaps, and others who helped with parts and offers of assistance.

Chuck Kramer
12-27-2017, 12:01 PM
One of ten 1977 M/M Combinations, Not sure how many were of the limousine style. Ten total combinations in 1978 and five total combinations in 1979.

I just re-checked McPherson's Miller/Meter book. There is no mention of the number of limousine style and landau style coaches produced during the 77-79 years.

I sure would be interested in that information as well as how many still exist.

Chuck Kramer
12-27-2017, 04:13 PM
I just re-checked McPherson's Miller/Meter book. There is no mention of the number of limousine style and landau style coaches produced during the 77-79 years.

I sure would be interested in that information as well as how many still exist.

I meant to say the number of COMBINATION coaches of limousine style and landau style for each of the 77-79 years.

Chuck Kramer
12-28-2017, 08:22 PM
I meant to say the number of COMBINATION coaches of limousine style and landau style for each of the 77-79 years.

It's hard to believe all the M/M members are silent? Especially those who are the M/M Experts.