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View Full Version : The Bogus "JFK Ambulance" Returns


Steve Lichtman
12-21-2016, 03:33 PM
You would think that Barrett-Jackson got burned badly enough once on this to never repeat their mistake. You'd be wrong, of course. The bogus "JFK Ambulance", the 1963 Superior Pontiac Navy ambulance, will be back on the B-J auction block this January in Scottsdale.

Here is the link to the auction listing. (http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1963-PONTIAC-BONNEVILLE-JFK-AMBULANCE-202029)

The only thing truthful is that it was, in fact, used in the movie "Jackie". I was on the movie set the day the scene was filmed, this car really was there.

Darren Bedford
12-21-2016, 06:20 PM
I'm sure it will not fetch 125,000.00 like it supposedly sold for twice in the same auction. Another mystery with the already mistaken identity of this so called JKF ambulance.

It is truly sad that the children who run BJ auctions would even run this through their auction again.

Another questions is... why doesn't the lady who bought it, want it anymore ? Doesn't bring in the money or people to her collection that they figured it would ?

They finally realized that the car is a fake and don't want anything to do with it ?

Gotta wonder who would want it other than to present it as a replica that it is.

Oh well, to each their own reasons.

:beatdeadhorse5:

Darren

Denny Shira
12-21-2016, 07:26 PM
I would love to own that car because it is a nice example of an ambulance from that time period, and it is a Pontiac. Unfortunately it is way out of my wheelhouse. :( I'm glad that it was outed as a fraud. That was one of the PCS finest moments.

Tim Prieur
12-21-2016, 08:02 PM
why doesn't the lady who bought it, want it anymore ?

Darren

Unfortunately she faced a family tragedy, after which she closed her museum and is selling off all the cars. Very sad, so we have to treat her well here.:thumbsup:

I remember this car for sale before all of the shenanigans and the price point was then only "too much". Purely as a US Navy ambulance I did not think it right that it should reside anywhere other than in the USA and did not pursue it.

Tim Prieur
12-21-2016, 08:04 PM
That was one of the PCS finest moments.

Bang on Denny.

John ED Renstrom
12-21-2016, 09:22 PM
It would not be bad at around 5 or less. You can see how rough the interior is. But see the are using the same old hope with a small disclaimer.

Steve Lichtman
12-22-2016, 01:36 AM
Here it is on the set of the movie "Jackie", filmed in Baltimore. They did rent it from Tammy Allen - well, from her "people". I was working that night with my Studebaker sedan as one of the cars on the street. I got to look it over pretty well. Actually, the ambulance is in very good shape, it ran well and the interior seems in good condition. Overall, it's a very nice ambulance. I just wish it could shake the B-J hype and go back to being just a nicely restored ambulance.

(Notice the beacon is off in my photo. They had removed it for shipping. The movie crew folks were having a tough time figuring out how to reassemble the pieces. I provided some "advice" as to how to install the beacon. The technician looked at me and said, sarcastically, "What are you, some kind of ambulance expert?" Um, well......)

Kent Dorsey
12-22-2016, 12:35 PM
after the last B-J fiasco, I have never felt the same about them... I wish someone had a bulldog media contact that would go after this story...
Maybe I should rephrase this, how about everyone contacting your favorite news organization with a "scam" department and them know about this.

Russell Street
12-22-2016, 01:02 PM
after the last B-J fiasco, I have never felt the same about them... I wish someone had a bulldog media contact that would go after this story...
Maybe I should rephrase this, how about everyone contacting your favorite news organization with a "scam" department and them know about this.

Kent, that would require that the "news media" actually behave like the "journalists" that they purport to be, instead of advancing their "agenda" on a whole wide range of subjects.

OH, what I wouldn't give for an honest media in the country!!!!!

Jim Staruk
12-22-2016, 01:13 PM
after the last B-J fiasco, I have never felt the same about them... I wish someone had a bulldog media contact that would go after this story...
Maybe I should rephrase this, how about everyone contacting your favorite news organization with a "scam" department and them know about this.

On Tammy Allen's website (http://allenuniqueautos.com/1960-1969/) she is completely up front about the history (and controversy) about this car.

"Following President John F. Kennedy’s assassination in Dallas on November 22, 1963, his body was flown back to Washington on Air Force One, after which it was to be taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital for autopsy. While airborne, Jacqueline Kennedy requested that a Navy ambulance be used for this transfer in honor of her husband’s service in WWII. The request was initially denied, as it was against regulations to use an ambulance as a hearse, but that rule was quickly pushed aside by higher officers in light of the circumstances. Thus, a 1963 Pontiac Bonneville Superior ambulance bearing the registration number 94-49196 was dispatched to meet the plane at Andrews Air Force Base. It then took JFK’s body to Bethesda for autopsy and embalming, then on to the Capitol building where it lay in state for three days leading up to the funeral. The car was used by the Navy for several more years before it was retired from service, but what happened to it after that is something of a mystery.
One widely-held theory holds that the original car was destroyed. In 1980 an ambulance was donated to the JFK Presidential Library, and because the Kennedy family did not like to keep morbid artifacts from the assassination they requested that it be crushed. This supposedly took place in June 1986, but no serial numbers were recorded and some of the registration numbers had been painted over. One is thus forced to consider the possibility that the photos, or the car itself, were altered. There is evidence supporting the destruction of the car, but not proof.
Rumors persist about the possible existence of a decoy ambulance, which was supposedly used to confuse the media and prevent them from following the real car. The likely source of the legend is that some members of the press mistakenly followed a similar ambulance that was out on another call, but the intentional use of a decoy is possible. It would have been easy to remove and re-paint the numbers on another car in a very short time.
Virtually everything associated with the JFK assassination incites controversy and talk of conspiracies, and this car is no different. It may be the real car, a decoy, or a carefully crafted replica, but the world will never know for sure unless some conclusive documentation surfaces. The car may or may not have carried JFK’s body, but it was certainly used to help save the lives of sick and wounded American sailors, and that is perhaps the most noble purpose a car can have."

Steve Lichtman
12-22-2016, 02:05 PM
Well, she's honest to a point. There may be no definitive proof (in her mind) that the real ambulance was destroyed. But there is also no definitive proof that the ambulance she has is the real one. Any possible proof was destroyed when the fraudulent documents and dash plate were created - and we do have definitive proof that those are all fakes.

She drops the hint that perhaps this was a decoy - but who cares about a decoy?

Anyway, B-J is sticking to their story that this is the real thing.

John ED Renstrom
12-22-2016, 02:41 PM
possibly. they escape declaimer shows up again. but the fact that no one there when it was crushed took a picture of the data plate only adds to the mystery.

we know this bar was one bought out in calf. it was used out there in a number of shows. the Kansas DR bought it swallowed the story spent money with people who provided him with some sort of documentation that would make it appear so. it did not sell the first round even with there hype and Ms Allen bough it for a opening bid after the sale. letting the dock off the hook. were she displayed it in here car museum in Colorado. with pretty much word for word this description posted. now it's up again. to go for round two of public draw somewhere. and it will get sleazier with each round.

shame the painted numbers don't match the front used on the original. but then they don't on the crushed one either. I guess that would be the next round of but why? one would need to see when the navy lettered there cars

Tim Prieur
01-16-2017, 04:12 PM
Quietly parked in a nondescript point. No billboards. We will see what it brings.

Tim Prieur
01-22-2017, 12:23 AM
Leaves as a $36,000 "movie car".

Bill Marcy
01-22-2017, 12:26 AM
Just sold for $35,000, a far cry from what it supposedly sold for the last time. The only representation they made, was the car was used in the movie Jackie.

John ED Renstrom
01-22-2017, 12:31 AM
Good enough only 20 g to high figuring Steve's discription. But normal for BJ

Darren Bedford
01-22-2017, 08:20 PM
I am still proud of the PCS with regards to the REAL STORY & FACTS provided the first time it sold and the results show big time with the clearance of it this time around.

Darren

Robert L. Koryciak
01-23-2017, 12:07 AM
A friend of mine is a corporate pilot, and sent me a text photo, I believe, last summer, (Maybe Earlier) of the "JFK Ambulance" on display in a hanger in Colorado, as well as the 1964 M&M Cadillac Coach from O'Neal Funeral Home. I advised him the Funeral Coach was authentic, as it was recently (At That Time!) sold by Barrett Jackson, However, I did what Paul Harvey would do, and told him "The Rest of The Story!" about the JFK ambulance, and what Brady Smith said and his reliable info from the folks in Hyannisport!

I hear about this again, My head is going to explode!
:beatdeadhorse5:

Richard Vyse
01-23-2017, 09:21 AM
If you watched and saw the John Lennon hearse on the block the club was mentioned very briefly.

Abe Bush
01-23-2017, 08:55 PM
I would be interested in reading the original post, to learn how we determined it was a fake. I did a search for JFK Ambulance, and got like 30 pages of results -- none of which contained the post I was looking for -- and did another search for "JFK", and got zero results. If anyone happens to have the link, I would appreciate it if you'd share it!

John ED Renstrom
01-23-2017, 09:17 PM
Did you try the search on this site I can spell and I'm on this tablet or I would try

Nicholas Studer
01-23-2017, 09:50 PM
This is the main one.

http://www.professionalcarsociety.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4201

Steve Lichtman
01-25-2017, 05:11 PM
I would be interested in reading the original post, to learn how we determined it was a fake. I did a search for JFK Ambulance, and got like 30 pages of results -- none of which contained the post I was looking for -- and did another search for "JFK", and got zero results. If anyone happens to have the link, I would appreciate it if you'd share it!Abe, that thread - 30+ pages - is indeed where the results of the work we did are. I know, you have to dig through. It came together in a lot of little pieces, but put together, it was "fake news".

If you want, I can explain it for you. Too long to type, but if you want "the whole story", I can tell ya. Got an hour or so? Call me, check your private messages for my phone number. I can also answer your other question.

Sold for a far cry from what they thought it would sell for back in '11. Here's the link to the sale results page (https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1963-PONTIAC-BONNEVILLE-JFK-AMBULANCE-202029).

Now, the big question. Anyone know where it's going now? Not to my garage...

Rick Franklin
01-25-2017, 10:07 PM
Abe, that thread - 30+ pages - is indeed where the results of the work we did are. I know, you have to dig through. It came together in a lot of little pieces, but put together, it was "fake news".

If you want, I can explain it for you. Too long to type, but if you want "the whole story", I can tell ya. Got an hour or so? Call me, check your private messages for my phone number. I can also answer your other question.

Sold for a far cry from what they thought it would sell for back in '11. Here's the link to the sale results page (https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1963-PONTIAC-BONNEVILLE-JFK-AMBULANCE-202029).

Now, the big question. Anyone know where it's going now? Not to my garage...

Its not "fake news"; its alternate facts!